You guys asked for it...

[fifo]

One of the few hands I won. Going over it now, I realize that I had 1:5 pot odds on the river. So shouldn't I have bet?

GAME #433153422: 2c / 4c Limit (ok) - 2006-09-16 17:44:31
Table Brands Hatch

Seat 1: retraite ($0.36 in chips)
Seat 2: nickypoker ($1.4 in chips)
Seat 4: Devil26200 ($1.14 in chips)
Seat 5: pretreltigha ($6.15 in chips)
Seat 6: jariti ($0.77 in chips)
Seat 7: zepekinio ($0.98 in chips)
Seat 8: LEDGEWOOD24 ($4.5 in chips)
Seat 9: sa6a ($5.29 in chips)
Seat 10: K99MGS ($2.05 in chips)

pretreltigha: SB $0.01
jariti: BB $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pretreltigha [H7 HA]
zepekinio: Fold
LEDGEWOOD24: Call $0.02
sa6a: Call $0.02
K99MGS: Fold
retraite: Call $0.02
nickypoker: Fold
Devil26200: Call $0.02
pretreltigha: Call $0.01
jariti: Check
*** FLOP *** [H9 H6 D6]
pretreltigha: Bet $0.02
jariti: Call $0.02
LEDGEWOOD24: Fold
sa6a: Fold
retraite: Call $0.02
Devil26200: Call $0.02
*** TURN *** [H9 H6 D6 D9]
pretreltigha: Check
jariti: Check
retraite: Check
Devil26200: Check
*** RIVER *** [H9 H6 D6 D9 CK]
pretreltigha: Check
jariti: Check
retraite: Check
Devil26200: Check
*** SHOW DOWN ***
retraite: shows (mucked) [S2 S3] (Two pair)
Devil26200: shows (mucked) [DJ CQ] (Two pair)
pretreltigha: shows [H7 HA] (Two pair)
jariti: shows (mucked) [C4 DQ] (Two pair)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.2 Rake $0
pretreltigha: wins $0.2

One other question. In the above hand, I do have the nut flush draw, right? So, on the river I have a total of 9 outs. But, if another 6 hit and someone had a 9, or, if another 9 hit and someone had a 6, I'd be dead. Is this just a risk I have to take? Or do I kind of "subtract" 4 outs from my nine?

[sfustsh]

No, you're already losing to 6's and 9's. On the turn they both have full houses already.

If they have either of these holdings you are already drawing dead.

You have no outs at all unless your opponents have a pocket pair greater than 9s. If this is the case your only outs are aces for the "nut" two pair. If another player has an ace you'd lose to A8 AT AJ AQ AK too if an ace landed.

The flush draws are not outs because a heart (ironically) doesn't necessarily improve your hand. You're already beating every possible hand except 6x 9x and pairs greater than nines.

EDIT: I would have bet on the turn since no one is representing full house by not raising and you want to make them pay to draw to a diamond flush. Your opponents are telling you that you have the best hand on the turn by not raising. With 4 players in the pot, a raise is the correct play by a HUGE margain.
You should not bet the end because the king of flush draws is a real possibility. I tried to figure out the odds to bet based on the chance that you are beat but I forgot how to do it. Since you can't figure it out fast enough anyway here's the point: at the end if you bet you will only be called by hands that beat you (kings more importantly). If you just show it down you are assured victory (or a split) by a large margain and you will not win any extra bets since losing hands will not call you (they might, but flush and diamond draws will not).

[fifo]

The flush draws are not outs because a heart (ironically) doesn't necessarily improve your hand. You're already beating every possible hand except 6x 9x and pairs greater than nines.

Just to make sure I understand: The only thing that can beat me _if_ I hit heart is a full house. Of heart, there is still 2,3,4,5,8,T,J,Q,K out there. So any poket pair of those would kill me, therefore making heat only an out _if_ noone has a poket pair. Is that what you mean?
But then, I guess that 22 to 55/88 are the more probably cases here, as TT to KK would probably have raised preflop?

[sfustsh]

Hearts are not outs if your opponent has a pocket pair that makes trips on the river. That player then has a full house and you have a flush, but then, the card didn't have to be a heart, did it? You still lose.

If your opponent has 55 and the river is 5h then you make a flush but they make 5s full of 9s.

And no, what I meant is that a flush doesn't improve your hand. You are already beating all hands except full houses. Even if you make the flush you beat the same range of hands.

An out is a card that gives you the best hand. You already have the best hand: 6s and 9s with Ace kicker. If you make a flush you have an Ace high flush but that's just as good as 6s and 9s with an Ace kicker.

At this point, you realistically have no outs. You either have the best hand or you don't. Like you said, hands that beat you would have raised at some point (preflop for big pairs, the flop for full houses).

I hope this is more clear?

[fifo]

ugh, yes, it was. I wonder if I will ever realize stuff like this in an instant...