Tight Poker

[sean_connery]

Interesting Hand.

IMO the correct answer is totally read dependant on your opponent.

Tight Passive: Fold in a heartbeat

Loose Aggressive: Push in a heartbeat

Tight(er) Aggressive (during mid-game): Tough Call. Generally, you are ahead here, but not dominant. I probably fold if I think I can outplay my opponents the rest of the way, and push if I am playing over my head or with mostly tight aggressive opponents.

Now if you have no specific reads (due to multi-tabling or whatever), then you have to rely on what catagory the average/general player fits in for the STT level you are playing in, and act accordingly........

Rock On!

[scottie_g]

I'm a tight bastard when it comes to reraising on the bubble (this is pretty much the bubble) but I'm pushing.
You are in NO WAY guaranteed a money finish in this game.

I concur.

[Linuxrocks]

Most of us agree that playing for first is better than sliding in the money. Once you take his ass out on this one, you'll destroy the remainder of the table with ease.

I am still playing for first by folding. Why do you think SNGPT says -EV if you call?

[Linuxrocks]

You are in NO WAY guaranteed a money finish in this game.

We are only talking about the probabilities not certainities. I said, the probability of finishing in ITM, if I fold is greater than the probabilitiy if I call

[cavman]

Why do you think SNGPT says -EV if you call?

it's broke. don't call, push.

[Linuxrocks]

Why do you think SNGPT says -EV if you call?

it's broke. don't call, push.

I meant calling a 2500 stack push is -EV. SNGPT doesn't have the tools to analyze re-raise all-ins etc.

[cavman]

i was kidding about the program, but i don't care what it says. i'm pushing JJ here everytime, and i don't really see any merit to folding. i'd like to know exactly how that program calculated this was -EV too.

it seems that most of your reasoning behind folding is that you are playing it safe and can outplay them later. while i understand this, it doesn't mean you should fold JJ in this spot, which I think is giving up a lot of value.

[bobcorn]

i was kidding about the program, but i don't care what it says. i'm pushing JJ here everytime, and i don't really see any merit to folding. i'd like to know exactly how that program calculated this was -EV too.

it seems that most of your reasoning behind folding is that you are playing it safe and can outplay them later. while i understand this, it doesn't mean you should fold JJ in this spot, which I think is giving up a lot of value.

At first I thought it was a push too, but look at his table position. He has position on the other big stack and can steal blinds from the small stack to his left. He's on sort of a mini-bubble. So unless you know that Button's raising range is wider than 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+, you should fold.

[cavman]

i guess a fold is the safer way to go, but i still think its weak-tight and you are giving up value. of the range that was named, hero is a 2:1 favorite over many of the hands, a coinflip (slight favorite) to some, and dominate some. I think AA/KK/QQ are extremely unlikely because of how much he raised.

i understand you are very likely to get in the money, and don't want to risk that against the big stack, but i also think you are a pretty big favorite in this scenario, can guarentee yourself the money, and most likely win the tourney.

[bobcorn]

i guess a fold is the safer way to go, but i still think its weak-tight and you are giving up value. of the range that was named, hero is a 2:1 favorite over many of the hands, a coinflip (slight favorite) to some, and dominate some. I think AA/KK/QQ are extremely unlikely because of how much he raised.

i understand you are very likely to get in the money, and don't want to risk that against the big stack, but i also think you are a pretty big favorite in this scenario, can guarentee yourself the money, and most likely win the tourney.

It's a close hand and if Button was LAG, I would definitely push here. But with the range ppadala gave, it's a fold.

[Linuxrocks]

1. It's not about sneaking into ITM
2. It's not about fearing losing this hand

It's about understanding whether this move is +EV or -EV with the given stacks, and given situation

[cavman]

i disagree. i don't have anything new to say, just that i am not folding the 4th best starting hand possible in this spot. i think JJ is most likely a favorite, possibly a big favorite, worst-case in a coinflip, and almost never in really bad shape.

this post was responding to bobcorn

[alanpsych]

I don't get it. ppdala calls him a maniac, but gives him a tight range. Maybe I don't know what maniac means. Is it not possible that he's just stealing here? I'm really not trying to be a smartass here. If I can do better by folding JJ in these situations I'd be happy to do so. I'm a limit player who's trying to learn.

I also have to admit that I never seem to get hands as good as JJ at bubble time, but my AT or 88 always get called by the guy with JJ, so I'd like to be that guy once in a while.

The only thing I can think of is that the unusual raise must have made you think he was trying to lure someone into re-raising him and he had AA-KK.

I'm glad you got 2nd and all, but doubling up here gives you such bullying potential, I have to figure this is +ev compared to keeping 2nd chip position, which is no guarantee of an itm finish.

[Linuxrocks]

Ok, I will just say one more thing, and then shut up.

Think about the relative strengths of hands in a given situation, not absolute values

[Linuxrocks]

Ha, this is much tougher to explain than I thought.

I don't get it. ppdala calls him a maniac, but gives him a tight range. Maybe I don't know what maniac means. Is it not possible that he's just stealing here? I'm really not trying to be a smartass here. If I can do better by folding JJ in these situations I'd be happy to do so. I'm a limit player who's trying to learn.

When I said maniac, I meant not a maniac in the ring game sense where people raise with crap. I mean, he was calling multi-way all-ins etc. A little bit of gambler.

Now, what do you make of this raise? He probably has AQ, AK, or a pair like 88, and wants to put the shortie all-in, and jump over me. It's not that difficult to read.

I also have to admit that I never seem to get hands as good as JJ at bubble time, but my AT or 88 always get called by the guy with JJ, so I'd like to be that guy once in a while..

Call a 1500 all-in with JJ in this position all the time. There just is no doubt about that. Would you call a 2500 all-in in this position? You gotta crunch in a few numbers and see.