Tight Poker

[ugignadl]

Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/02/24 - 19:16:19 (ET)
Table '43830860 1' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: kmg9000 (1530 in chips)
Seat 2: MengRanger (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: Ugignadl (1450 in chips)
Seat 4: laurendawg (1480 in chips)
Seat 5: ttossona (1550 in chips)
Seat 6: Conzy66 (1500 in chips)
laurendawg: posts small blind 10
ttossona: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ugignadl [:Ac: ]
Conzy66: folds
kmg9000: folds
MengRanger: folds
Ugignadl: raises 40 to 60
laurendawg: calls 50
ttossona: raises 40 to 100
Ugignadl: calls 40
laurendawg: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [:2h: ]
laurendawg: checks
ttossona: bets 150
Ugignadl ...?

[mewsiclovr]

I don't see how this is anything but a fold.

[ugignadl]

Maybe I'm playing badly then, because I raised... everyone hate it?

[hiho]

Even in a 6 max I'd fold.

[mewsiclovr]

oh preflop looks perfect, I'd raise this every time. But flop is a fold.

[sfustsh]

Yeah, I hate it.

No reason to get involved.

[mewsiclovr]

I might get fiesty against an aggro opponent who I know can lay it down facing resistance - but I wouldn't know that this early, and this isn't a good flop for it, so I'd just fold.

[LadyWrestler]

Preflop looks okay to me. I would fold the flop.

[sfustsh]

I might get fiesty against an aggro opponent who I know can lay it down facing resistance - but I wouldn't know that this early, and this isn't a good flop for it, so I'd just fold.

What would be a better flop to checkraise a cbet?

I can't really think of a better flop, actually.

[LadyWrestler]

I might get fiesty against an aggro opponent who I know can lay it down facing resistance - but I wouldn't know that this early, and this isn't a good flop for it, so I'd just fold.

What would be a better flop to checkraise a cbet?

I can't really think of a better flop, actually.

Oh, I can think of a better flop:

[ugignadl]

Later I realised that opponent here is a standard ABC SNGer, but did not know it at the time.

I raised his bet to something like 450, and he folded. It just seemed the obvious move on this board, with me as the PF raiser. It puts him in a rough spot, and folds out most hands. I guess it is the wrong play most of the time, but on this board?

*edit: Reasoning goes thus. Hands which can call or raise this flop raise of mine also include hands which would play pf differently, excepting of course small pps and other weird 2 pair combinations. If he has one of those then I will find out soon. Otherwise, I take the odds and he folds. Maybe he will do something with TPTK but otherwise I see him mostly folding here.

Perhaps I'm not completely used to playing online after playing live for a good while now.

[sfustsh]

Ugi, I agree that this is the kind of board that just BEGS to be checkraised when your opponent makes a weak cbet (technically, he's cbeting, since he reraised PF).

In a cash game, I would routinely make the same play.

But, the blinds are low, and you would rather preserve a tight image for later. Also, you can't tolerate an all in, which you could see with hands as weak as AT sometimes (yes, seriously). So in that case you've thrown away 450 chips to win 150.

Basically, you want to preserve as many chips as you can until the blinds are raised late in the tournament, maximizing your chance of placing in the money. These types of plays, while way +EV, really hurt your chances of placing if they fail. Having 1000 chips is much worse than having 1750 chips is better.

[darinvg]

I limp preflop and sure won't be doing anything on this flop. Remember these aren't cash games.

[tightpoker]

My style is LAG, and here's how I would look at it...

You're just betting on the chance that he doesn't have 88+ here. Which given the range of an unknown player, you would assume something like AJ-AK and 44-AA for someone who re-raised your PFR. So you could theoretically beat 6 of those (AJ, AQ, AK, 44, 55, 66) and lose to 8 of those (77 - AA). This is assuming that is just the range, which puts you somewhere at like 40%.

Range is generally correlated with loose/tight however, so the bigger your opponents' range, the more apt they might be to call with a weaker hand (read: AK, 44). If they call your raise on the flop, then you are forced to put the brakes on the turn, which is bad. So if we put an arbitrary 20% more likelyhood of calling on a loose range, then you go down more to like 30%.

Against a tight player with a tighter range, you are more like 30% as well on their range.

Pot is about a rough 400. To call is 150. If you pot it at 400 and get 1:1 ratio, that means you are breaking even if you win 50% of the time here.

So, I'd put it somewhere at the 30% chance vs 50% required here, which is not so good. Against a weak player or player with known big range, then I really like this play. Against an unknown, I think you get away with it enough times that you might want to make it again, but in the long run, it's probably a losing play.

[ugignadl]

...thus the post. It is going to take a while to get the mindset back to SNGs...now that I live much closer to the casino (30min) it is going to be harder to separate the styles.