Spotting a set
Moderators: ihatejacks, Section Moderators, Moderators
1 post • Page 1 of 1
Spotting a set
by beezee » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:32 pm
Pete
Spotting a set
« on: Apr 26th, 2005, 2:27am »
I've been reading this forum for about a month. Thanks for all of the great tips.
I've never posted anything before, but I played a hand yesterday that keeps running through my head. I fall prey to this sitation way too many times and I'm seeking some advice how others avoid it.
I usualy play the $100 or $200 buy-in NL holdem ring games. I'm up over $1K for the last month, so I'm not complaining, but I would like to improve my game.
I was at $100 NL Holdem table yesterday in third position with AK (blinds $0.50 / $1). First and second positions call the BB, so I raise to $5. The guy next to me flat calls and so does the button. The blinds fold, first position calls and second position folds. This means there is about $22 in the pot.
The flop comes 3-K-J. First position checks. I bet $20 and the guy next to me raises to $40. The other two players fold. The raiser has $30 left on the table after the raise and I have $80 before I call his raise. This tells me that he would probably push all in on turn if I call because the pot will have about $100 in it. Even if he is on a draw and I bet on Turn, I'd have to bet at least his $30 anyway.
I could fold assuming I'm beat by 2 pair or better (maybe he called $5 preflop raise with KJ) or I could raise assuming he is on a str8 draw and I have the best hand.
Well, I decide to push all in. He turns over a set of 3s...I'm toast.
How would you have played this hand?
goofyballer
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #1 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 3:25am »
Speak of the devil. I just got hosed by my two pair losing to a set TWICE!!!! PL 25, one of them was admittedly stupid (I have QJs, raise behind me, two flat callers, flop is KQJ, original raiser bets almost the pot, limper doubles it, I re-raise the pot, original raiser folds, other guy calls all-in and has KK) but the other one was ridiculous. Check this out:
***** Hand History for Game 1954971523 *****
$25 PL Hold'em - Tuesday, April 26, 05:55:17 EDT 2005
Table Table 36563 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: goofyballr ( $24.65 )
Seat 4: compagnucci ( $5.58 )
Seat 9: CONMAN777 ( $40.95 )
Seat 2: aniania ( $19.05 )
Seat 3: Odie26 ( $33.95 )
Seat 6: chronicrage1 ( $9.15 )
Seat 8: Marks59 ( $10.8 )
Seat 7: York_Rapp ( $16.32 )
Seat 1: esong23 ( $22.9 )
Seat 10: NewinNov04 ( $2.9 )
Marks59 posts small blind [$0.1].
CONMAN777 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to goofyballr [ Jd As ]
NewinNov04 folds.
esong23 calls [$0.25].
aniania calls [$0.25].
Odie26 folds.
compagnucci folds.
goofyballr calls [$0.25].
chronicrage1 calls [$0.25].
York_Rapp calls [$0.25].
Marks59 calls [$0.15].
CONMAN777 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, Ad, 9s ] fantastic flop for me, right?
Marks59 checks.
CONMAN777 checks.
esong23 bets [$0.5].
aniania folds.
goofyballr raises [$1.5].
chronicrage1 folds.
York_Rapp folds.
Marks59 folds.
CONMAN777 folds.
esong23 raises [$2]. I put him on AK at this point
goofyballr raises [$5.5].
esong23 calls [$4.5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
goofyballr bets [$8].
esong23 calls [$8].
** Dealing River ** [ 4d ]
goofyballr bets [$8].
esong23 is all-In [$7.65]
goofyballr shows [ Jd, As ] two pairs, aces and jacks.
esong23 shows [ 9h, 9d ] three of a kind, nines.
goofyballr wins $0.35 from side pot #1 with two pairs, aces and jacks.
esong23 wins $44.7 from the main pot with three of a kind, nines.
Game #1954974681 starts.
So yeah, I could use some advice in the area as well.
ajo
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #2 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 5:40am »
spotting a set is very hard especially in a NL game where 1 bet is the only clue you get. in a limit game where there is big action before the flop and a bunch of ragsd come out and u see a guy betting or raising that didnt show much aggression before the flop can signal set in big letters.
sets can be very tricky to spot and set over set....well forget it
mwgoblue
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #3 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 6:47am »
When I see someone raise me the minimum, it usually tells me I'm up against a big hand. They are just begging for a call. He would push on a bluff or KQ, but this looks like a massage bet. It's tough, but I think I lay down here.
Depends on the read too, against a loose/aggressive player, I'm pushing.
Biggle10
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #4 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 3:10pm »
on Apr 26th, 2005, 6:47am, mwgoblue wrote:
When I see someone raise me the minimum, it usually tells me I'm up against a big hand. They are just begging for a call.
So how do you defend yourself against post-oaks?
MJ
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #5 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 4:26pm »
I get hosed by this one all the time - it's one of the hardest plays to stay away from.
The biggest way to avoid this bear trap for all your chips is basically have a pre-read on an opponent. Hard to do if they just sat down or you just sat down.
In your situation without any pre-read, it's a hard choice. The guy behind flat calls $5, so I'm assuming he's either a fish or limping with a big hand. Flop comes down and he min-raises. If he's a fish, he's got some kind of PP and is testing you out or being cute. If he's strong and limping, then this is a sign of AA or a set. So, hard to really spot this unless you know the player. If he's strong, you have to assume he's not trying to be bluff as well, because he should spot your image, and realize that you can easily push him all-in with only $50 more to go in this pot after having pre-flop raised and bet the flop.
rustbrad
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #6 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 10:38pm »
In this situation, with the player having as many chips as he does, there's no way you can get away from this hand. The only other option is to not bet as much as you did on the flop...kind of a feeler bet. I don't like that option very much when it's 4 - way and you have two broadway cards out.
Someone with KQ or K10 may do a min. raise here to see where they are. Sometimes both people have AK. Sometimes people with QQ just call and then realize what a huge mistake it is once they see the flop and then try to raise. Without solid knowledge of your opponent, there is no way to get away right here.
When you think about it, there are really only three hands that beat you here. JJ should have re-raised pre-flop, so I will eliminate that. That leaves the smooth call AA, 33 and KJ. All of those make sense. If you can't put your opponent on those three hands your only option is to put him/her all-in.
Brad
Spotting a set
« on: Apr 26th, 2005, 2:27am »
I've been reading this forum for about a month. Thanks for all of the great tips.
I've never posted anything before, but I played a hand yesterday that keeps running through my head. I fall prey to this sitation way too many times and I'm seeking some advice how others avoid it.
I usualy play the $100 or $200 buy-in NL holdem ring games. I'm up over $1K for the last month, so I'm not complaining, but I would like to improve my game.
I was at $100 NL Holdem table yesterday in third position with AK (blinds $0.50 / $1). First and second positions call the BB, so I raise to $5. The guy next to me flat calls and so does the button. The blinds fold, first position calls and second position folds. This means there is about $22 in the pot.
The flop comes 3-K-J. First position checks. I bet $20 and the guy next to me raises to $40. The other two players fold. The raiser has $30 left on the table after the raise and I have $80 before I call his raise. This tells me that he would probably push all in on turn if I call because the pot will have about $100 in it. Even if he is on a draw and I bet on Turn, I'd have to bet at least his $30 anyway.
I could fold assuming I'm beat by 2 pair or better (maybe he called $5 preflop raise with KJ) or I could raise assuming he is on a str8 draw and I have the best hand.
Well, I decide to push all in. He turns over a set of 3s...I'm toast.
How would you have played this hand?
goofyballer
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #1 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 3:25am »
Speak of the devil. I just got hosed by my two pair losing to a set TWICE!!!! PL 25, one of them was admittedly stupid (I have QJs, raise behind me, two flat callers, flop is KQJ, original raiser bets almost the pot, limper doubles it, I re-raise the pot, original raiser folds, other guy calls all-in and has KK) but the other one was ridiculous. Check this out:
***** Hand History for Game 1954971523 *****
$25 PL Hold'em - Tuesday, April 26, 05:55:17 EDT 2005
Table Table 36563 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: goofyballr ( $24.65 )
Seat 4: compagnucci ( $5.58 )
Seat 9: CONMAN777 ( $40.95 )
Seat 2: aniania ( $19.05 )
Seat 3: Odie26 ( $33.95 )
Seat 6: chronicrage1 ( $9.15 )
Seat 8: Marks59 ( $10.8 )
Seat 7: York_Rapp ( $16.32 )
Seat 1: esong23 ( $22.9 )
Seat 10: NewinNov04 ( $2.9 )
Marks59 posts small blind [$0.1].
CONMAN777 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to goofyballr [ Jd As ]
NewinNov04 folds.
esong23 calls [$0.25].
aniania calls [$0.25].
Odie26 folds.
compagnucci folds.
goofyballr calls [$0.25].
chronicrage1 calls [$0.25].
York_Rapp calls [$0.25].
Marks59 calls [$0.15].
CONMAN777 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, Ad, 9s ] fantastic flop for me, right?
Marks59 checks.
CONMAN777 checks.
esong23 bets [$0.5].
aniania folds.
goofyballr raises [$1.5].
chronicrage1 folds.
York_Rapp folds.
Marks59 folds.
CONMAN777 folds.
esong23 raises [$2]. I put him on AK at this point
goofyballr raises [$5.5].
esong23 calls [$4.5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
goofyballr bets [$8].
esong23 calls [$8].
** Dealing River ** [ 4d ]
goofyballr bets [$8].
esong23 is all-In [$7.65]
goofyballr shows [ Jd, As ] two pairs, aces and jacks.
esong23 shows [ 9h, 9d ] three of a kind, nines.
goofyballr wins $0.35 from side pot #1 with two pairs, aces and jacks.
esong23 wins $44.7 from the main pot with three of a kind, nines.
Game #1954974681 starts.
So yeah, I could use some advice in the area as well.
ajo
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #2 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 5:40am »
spotting a set is very hard especially in a NL game where 1 bet is the only clue you get. in a limit game where there is big action before the flop and a bunch of ragsd come out and u see a guy betting or raising that didnt show much aggression before the flop can signal set in big letters.
sets can be very tricky to spot and set over set....well forget it
mwgoblue
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #3 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 6:47am »
When I see someone raise me the minimum, it usually tells me I'm up against a big hand. They are just begging for a call. He would push on a bluff or KQ, but this looks like a massage bet. It's tough, but I think I lay down here.
Depends on the read too, against a loose/aggressive player, I'm pushing.
Biggle10
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #4 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 3:10pm »
on Apr 26th, 2005, 6:47am, mwgoblue wrote:
When I see someone raise me the minimum, it usually tells me I'm up against a big hand. They are just begging for a call.
So how do you defend yourself against post-oaks?
MJ
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #5 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 4:26pm »
I get hosed by this one all the time - it's one of the hardest plays to stay away from.
The biggest way to avoid this bear trap for all your chips is basically have a pre-read on an opponent. Hard to do if they just sat down or you just sat down.
In your situation without any pre-read, it's a hard choice. The guy behind flat calls $5, so I'm assuming he's either a fish or limping with a big hand. Flop comes down and he min-raises. If he's a fish, he's got some kind of PP and is testing you out or being cute. If he's strong and limping, then this is a sign of AA or a set. So, hard to really spot this unless you know the player. If he's strong, you have to assume he's not trying to be bluff as well, because he should spot your image, and realize that you can easily push him all-in with only $50 more to go in this pot after having pre-flop raised and bet the flop.
rustbrad
Re: Spotting a set
« Reply #6 on: Apr 26th, 2005, 10:38pm »
In this situation, with the player having as many chips as he does, there's no way you can get away from this hand. The only other option is to not bet as much as you did on the flop...kind of a feeler bet. I don't like that option very much when it's 4 - way and you have two broadway cards out.
Someone with KQ or K10 may do a min. raise here to see where they are. Sometimes both people have AK. Sometimes people with QQ just call and then realize what a huge mistake it is once they see the flop and then try to raise. Without solid knowledge of your opponent, there is no way to get away right here.
When you think about it, there are really only three hands that beat you here. JJ should have re-raised pre-flop, so I will eliminate that. That leaves the smooth call AA, 33 and KJ. All of those make sense. If you can't put your opponent on those three hands your only option is to put him/her all-in.
Brad
-
beezee - Grinder
- Posts: 194
- Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:52 am
1 post • Page 1 of 1
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
