Sick call or am I a donkey?

[neverthink]

Playing 3 handed this afternoon on Party, me and villain both have stacks of about 150 (i cover slightly).

Multitabling, read is that he is a thinking player, pretty solid. I am not concerned about flush draws so I haven't noted suits, though flop was not monotone.

I have JJ UTG otb and raise to 4 (NL100), SB folds and BB calls.

Flop is 784, Villain checks, I fire 7 into the 9 pot, he instaminraises to 14, I reraise to 47 and villain calls.

Turn brings 784(5), Villain pushes for 95, I call all in.

[poormanbilly]

I vote neither. This certainly isn't a "sick call" with jacks in the hole. JJ might as well be AA when you're playing 3 handed.

[neverthink]

It wasn't really my own handstrength I was getting at. It isn't important whether I have any pair from nines to aces, I was asking if this is a spot where I'm ahead most of the time or stacking off given how the hand was played.

[sfustsh]

You're only drawing dead to 56, which is possible perflop but not terribly likely. You're also likley not beaten by any pairs since JJ - AA should reraise here.

All his flop bets indicate that he's not drawing to a straight. He's either got one or not I suppose. With that said, the turn seems like he's firing just to stop any draws to a gutshot. I don't know, I think this is most consistent with a nailed set.

Anyway you have to call I think. I believe you are ahead *most of the time*.

[cavman]

what do you expect him to have that you beat? unless you have a great read that he'll make this play with TT or A8, i wouldn't even consider calling his push.

i also think your 3-bet on the flop is pretty bad too.

[poormanbilly]

what do you expect him to have that you beat? unless you have a great read that he'll make this play with TT or A8, i wouldn't even consider calling his push.

Dude....come on now. That is weak/tight gone mad. Why would he push the turn like that if he had a big hand? It doesn't tell a good story and makes zero sense.

[sfustsh]

what do you expect him to have that you beat? unless you have a great read that he'll make this play with TT or A8, i wouldn't even consider calling his push.

Dude....come on now. That is weak/tight gone mad. Why would he push the turn like that if he had a big hand? It doesn't tell a good story and makes zero sense.

I agree, this is why you have to call, most of the time villain has A8 or something dumb like T8. What beats you is not likely. He does not likely have a set (even though that's what I say is most likely) and there's nearly no chance he has a straight.

You win nearly all the time, this is villains attempt to outplay you. He thinks you were just cbetting because he feels he understands the game better than you. Bust that donkey and put him back in his place!

[poormanbilly]

I agree, this is why you have to call, most of the time villain has A8 or something dumb like T8. What beats you is not likely. He does not likely have a set (even though that's what I say is most likely) and there's nearly no chance he has a straight.

You win nearly all the time, this is villains attempt to outplay you. He thinks you were just cbetting because he feels he understands the game better than you. Bust that donkey and put him back in his place!

I'd say T9

[sfustsh]

I agree, this is why you have to call, most of the time villain has A8 or something dumb like T8. What beats you is not likely. He does not likely have a set (even though that's what I say is most likely) and there's nearly no chance he has a straight.

You win nearly all the time, this is villains attempt to outplay you. He thinks you were just cbetting because he feels he understands the game better than you. Bust that donkey and put him back in his place!

I'd say T9

Same hand as far as villain is concerned, neverthink what did he turn?

[cavman]

what do you expect him to have that you beat? unless you have a great read that he'll make this play with TT or A8, i wouldn't even consider calling his push.

Dude....come on now. That is weak/tight gone mad. Why would he push the turn like that if he had a big hand? It doesn't tell a good story and makes zero sense.

folding a small overpair on a 4578 board for a full stack when hero has shown nothing but aggression = weak-tight? do you think villain just called the large 3-bet on the flop with nothing just so he could bluff the turn if a 5 or 6 fell? Hero has showed strength the whole way, and borderline overplayed his hand. Now, he's facing a PSB on a scary board when he beats 3 hands, and only if those were terribly played. We don't even have a read that this guy has even bluffed before.

also, whether there is a flush draw or not in this hand is very important, and i don't see how it could be overlooked. A flush draw is actually one hand that villain could be bluffing with, although it's also a reason why he could be pushing the turn with a made hand.

i'm all for snapping off bluffs that don't make a lot of sense, but i don't think this is the spot.

[easy_as_pie]

how can you call that turn?

what are you beating?

[poormanbilly]

how can you call that turn?

what are you beating?

how can you not?

what is villain pushing?

[easy_as_pie]

any two pair, made straight, set

[neverthink]

He flipped over J8o for top pair. I wasn't sure exactly what he had, but he check raised the flop which suggested top pair, so of course I 3 bet that flop, it's dangerous and I want to take it down there. Then the turn put the 4 straight up. He pushes, trying to sell the straight, but as Bill put it, the story just didn't make sense. I am behind 86 if he has hit the gutshot. Thats the only hand that makes sense to check raise with and then push turn, if he had it, then fair enough. It just looked too much like he had turned his hand into a bluff when the board got scary, given that my hand is well defined as an overpair now from the flop action. A set would have pushed the flop, and anything like 2 pair or a set would not push the turn, they would rather check it out, which was my preference.

3 betting a good overpair on a "missed flop" is pretty standard imo. Cav, do you really fold JJ to a checkraise here? Flush draw was not imo a possibility given how the hand went, and if I thought it was then I was definitely callng, given that he was here repping a made straight.

I definitely didn't like making the call, but couldn't find a convincing enough reason to fold other than "I only have one pair on a dangerous board" (though that is enough in some cases), and I just felt that villain knew that this would be my automated response as well, and would result in a fold on my part., which was why I called.

[sfustsh]

*high five Billy!*

T8 was real close!