second most interesting hand of my miserable nite

[neverthink]

Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: Halwgnun ( $282.25)
Seat 2: Tongue37 ( $59)
Seat 3: NoCreditAvailable ( $55.55)
Seat 4: tiboer ( $134.75)
Seat 5: ____11____ ( $94.50)
Seat 6: EndLeSsWaLk ( $107.20)
EndLeSsWaLk posts small blind (0.50)
Halwgnun posts big blind (1)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ____11____ [ Kd, Qd ]
Tongue37 folds.
NoCreditAvailable raises (2) to 2
tiboer folds.
____11____ calls (2)
EndLeSsWaLk folds.
Halwgnun folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ts, 4c, Js ]
NoCreditAvailable bets (3)
____11____ calls (3)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8h ]
NoCreditAvailable bets (3)
____11____ calls (3)
** Dealing River ** : [ 8s ]
NoCreditAvailable checks.
____11____ bets (10)
NoCreditAvailable folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $26.65 | Rake: $0.85
Board: [ Ts 4c Js 8h 8s ]

Halwgnun balance $281.25, lost $1 (folded)
Tongue37 balance $59, didn't bet (folded)
NoCreditAvailable balance $47.55, lost $8 (folded)
tiboer balance $134.75, didn't bet (folded)
____11____ balance $103.15, bet $18, collected $26.65, net +$8.65
EndLeSsWaLk balance $106.70, lost $0.50 (folded)

I gotta start playin some more poker if this is the best I can offer. Might be getting the bug back a bit...

[sfustsh]

I love the preflop call, can't really see a fold being reasonable there.

Reraising is probably not a good idea, KQs can win a large pot but only when the cards are out. Reraising just commits money with what is, at best, a semibluff.

Calling the flop is a no brainer with 7 outs (you can probably figure he has an A) for a straight and two overcards which are probably live.

In terms of textbook play, calling the turn is probably correct. However I often like to put it in a decent sized raise here when he makes another small bet like that into me. One of the advantages of position, I suppose. In addition, waiting until the turn to make this move gets more money in the pot (that you are going to win, hopefully), and is also a lot stronger than a raise on the flop (where you are still not sure he doesn't have a hand). His 1/3 pot sized bet represents way too much weakness. He would be acutely aware of the draws (especially after you called the flop) and would bet much larger than that if he was trying to charge you. He's obviously afraid, and often your opponent is making a 'crying bet' just to try to get the hand over with.

I like that line better than calling and betting the river, which doesn't get more money in the pot (he will probably check to you) and won't improve your hand (if you make a hand, it doesn't matter, because he won't call you either way). It only allows him to pair his kicker or something like that, which you will not be able to detect. If a 7 falls on the river, you will have no way of knowing that he paired it, especially if he checks to you. Given how the hand was played, I'm willing to bet that your opponent will call you if he pairs his kicker, which puts you in a bad spot (bluffing in the dark).

Of course, it's presumptuous to assume he has Ax here, but hopefully knowing that he doesn't have 'much of a hand' is good enough to get you to raise the turn.

[ugignadl]

Well, of course you give us no reads at all which forces me into vaccuum play.

I'm raising the flop 100% of the time, and then betting any card which completes the flush or straight.

If instead he calls the flop raise and then leads the turn for a sizeable amount I'm folding.

If he pushes over the top on the flop for a decent amount then I am also folding.

[neverthink]

Sometimes I'll raise the flop, but I'll call about instead of raise about half the time. On the turn I doubt he has much and I presume if he checks it on the river a decent bet will take it down.

[neverthink]

Sometimes I'll raise the flop, but I'll call about instead of raise about half the time. On the turn I doubt he has much and I presume if he checks it on the river a decent bet will take it down.

[neverthink]

I love the preflop call, can't really see a fold being reasonable there.

Reraising is probably not a good idea, KQs can win a large pot but only when the cards are out. Reraising just commits money with what is, at best, a semibluff.

Calling the flop is a no brainer with 7 outs (you can probably figure he has an A) for a straight and two overcards which are probably live.

In terms of textbook play, calling the turn is probably correct. However I often like to put it in a decent sized raise here when he makes another small bet like that into me. One of the advantages of position, I suppose. In addition, waiting until the turn to make this move gets more money in the pot (that you are going to win, hopefully), and is also a lot stronger than a raise on the flop (where you are still not sure he doesn't have a hand). His 1/3 pot sized bet represents way too much weakness. He would be acutely aware of the draws (especially after you called the flop) and would bet much larger than that if he was trying to charge you. He's obviously afraid, and often your opponent is making a 'crying bet' just to try to get the hand over with.

I like that line better than calling and betting the river, which doesn't get more money in the pot (he will probably check to you) and won't improve your hand (if you make a hand, it doesn't matter, because he won't call you either way). It only allows him to pair his kicker or something like that, which you will not be able to detect. If a 7 falls on the river, you will have no way of knowing that he paired it, especially if he checks to you. Given how the hand was played, I'm willing to bet that your opponent will call you if he pairs his kicker, which puts you in a bad spot (bluffing in the dark).

Of course, it's presumptuous to assume he has Ax here, but hopefully knowing that he doesn't have 'much of a hand' is good enough to get you to raise the turn.

I used to reraise preflop but can't see much point to it, sometimes they will have been minraising Aces and prevent you from stacking them with a 4 bet preflop. Clearly I can't fold a prem hand like that.

Again, lol on the turn, I prefer to just call, as he is giving me correct odds to hit my hand. I am far more likely to raise here if he leads for larger. If he bets small and has nothing, he'll give it up on the river and I can steal as seen here. If he leads small and I raise and get called then I won't be able to successfully bluff the river often enough imo.

[neverthink]

I love the preflop call, can't really see a fold being reasonable there.

Reraising is probably not a good idea, KQs can win a large pot but only when the cards are out. Reraising just commits money with what is, at best, a semibluff.

Calling the flop is a no brainer with 7 outs (you can probably figure he has an A) for a straight and two overcards which are probably live.

In terms of textbook play, calling the turn is probably correct. However I often like to put it in a decent sized raise here when he makes another small bet like that into me. One of the advantages of position, I suppose. In addition, waiting until the turn to make this move gets more money in the pot (that you are going to win, hopefully), and is also a lot stronger than a raise on the flop (where you are still not sure he doesn't have a hand). His 1/3 pot sized bet represents way too much weakness. He would be acutely aware of the draws (especially after you called the flop) and would bet much larger than that if he was trying to charge you. He's obviously afraid, and often your opponent is making a 'crying bet' just to try to get the hand over with.

I like that line better than calling and betting the river, which doesn't get more money in the pot (he will probably check to you) and won't improve your hand (if you make a hand, it doesn't matter, because he won't call you either way). It only allows him to pair his kicker or something like that, which you will not be able to detect. If a 7 falls on the river, you will have no way of knowing that he paired it, especially if he checks to you. Given how the hand was played, I'm willing to bet that your opponent will call you if he pairs his kicker, which puts you in a bad spot (bluffing in the dark).

Of course, it's presumptuous to assume he has Ax here, but hopefully knowing that he doesn't have 'much of a hand' is good enough to get you to raise the turn.

I used to reraise preflop but can't see much point to it, sometimes they will have been minraising Aces and prevent you from stacking them with a 4 bet preflop. Clearly I can't fold a prem hand like that.

Again, lol on the turn, I prefer to just call, as he is giving me correct odds to hit my hand. I am far more likely to raise here if he leads for larger. If he bets small and has nothing, he'll give it up on the river and I can steal as seen here. If he leads small and I raise and get called then I won't be able to successfully bluff the river often enough imo.

[sfustsh]

Why do you raise if he makes a larger bet? The point of raising the small bet is because it is weak and has a high chance of winning the pot.

My arguement for raising the turn is that the river will usually only hurt you. More often than not you'll check behind (instead of bluffing) and when you do bluff, occassionally it has given him a calling hand.

Raising the turn allows you to semibluff instead of pure bluff. You may yet make your hand, and the bluff aspect of the bet will take the pot away very often anyway. I don't think the advantage to just calling is very large, as he will fold out when you make your hand most of the time. If you raise, there is more money in the pot (good thing) for when you do make your hand (compelling him to pay you off).

For me this is actually a fairly standard hand that I probably wouldn't think twice about:
Call preflop, call flop, raise turn, river depends.

[randy72560]

Ok, I like the preflop call... The flop call is weak, the turn call is weaker, and I guess you might as well bet out the river cause the way this whole ugly mess has played out, why the hell not...

All this looks really weak/tight to me though...

I would prefer to see you

Raise the flop >

And when he check (if he calls) Bet the turn> Most likely been over here

[neverthink]

Why do you raise if he makes a larger bet? The point of raising the small bet is because it is weak and has a high chance of winning the pot.

My arguement for raising the turn is that the river will usually only hurt you. More often than not you'll check behind (instead of bluffing) and when you do bluff, occassionally it has given him a calling hand.

Raising the turn allows you to semibluff instead of pure bluff. You may yet make your hand, and the bluff aspect of the bet will take the pot away very often anyway. I don't think the advantage to just calling is very large, as he will fold out when you make your hand most of the time. If you raise, there is more money in the pot (good thing) for when you do make your hand (compelling him to pay you off).

For me this is actually a fairly standard hand that I probably wouldn't think twice about:
Call preflop, call flop, raise turn, river depends.

I would raise a bigger bet because it would signify that he did in fact have a real hand, and so I would either have to make my hand on the river, or bluff him out to win the pot. So I would try both. Raising a big bet also says more about my hand than raising a small bet, which he will sometimes summise I am doing just because he bet small, and so call, which now inflates the pot on the river and if I miss won't feel good about bluffing on. When he bets the turn like that, it looks clear that I can steal on the river, or make my hand, so there are enough ways to win the hand without bluff raising a bait bet. There is also the fact that I would be making a mistake in calling a 2/3 bet, so why not raise anyway? It also ties him into the pot on the river, and should I make my hand, he will sometimes look me up on a value bet.

@Randy Raising the flop is my standard play, but I sometimes just call to mix it up and try something on the turn occasionally, or see what villain does the following street when I have position. I am equally as likely to check/raise it OOP as c-bet/lead it, as well as call then raise or raise and take a free one when in position. I don't like to be predictable. Plus, calling is indicative of a real hand, whereas raising not necessarily so.

I don't really like my draw enough to be double barrelling it. Just my preference, I don't think it has much effect on profit or table persona.