Tight Poker

[bram]

I know limping is weak but there are some serious clowns in this game

Should I have reraised flop, how about turn play? is river bet profitable or should I have just given it up?

GAME #533035196: Texas Hold'em NL $0.50/$1.00 2007-04-21 10:26:34
Table Quorn
Seat 1: boulderdash22 ($100.00 in chips)
Seat 3: sunmaker ($16.80 in chips)
Seat 5: leuszler ($28.04 in chips) DEALER
Seat 6: jallixx ($103.00 in chips)
Seat 8: yetigambler ($333.43 in chips)
Seat 10: chebazz ($136.81 in chips)
jallixx: Post SB $0.50
yetigambler: Post BB $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to boulderdash22 [SA S6]
Dealt to chebazz [C7 H8]
chebazz: Call $1.00
boulderdash22: Call $1.00
sunmaker: Fold
leuszler: Fold
jallixx: Call $0.50
yetigambler: Check
*** FLOP *** [D7 S4 S9]
jallixx: Check
yetigambler: Check
chebazz: Bet $4.00
boulderdash22: Call $4.00
jallixx: Fold
yetigambler: Fold
*** TURN *** [C8]
chebazz: Bet $9.00
boulderdash22: Raise $22.00
chebazz: Call $13.00
[b]*** RIVER *** [DQ]
chebazz: Check
boulderdash22: Bet $38.00
chebazz: Call $38.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $129.00 Rake $3.00
chebazz: wins $129.00

[ugignadl]

Very dependent on villain. Yeah, definitely raise pf, what are you doin' mate? I like flop, turn is great but again dependent on villain.

I think this line in general is quite good, but there are some people who will call you down with any piece that you want to avoid doing this against.

[bram]

Very dependent on villain. Yeah, definitely raise pf, what are you doin' mate? I like flop, turn is great but again dependent on villain.

I think this line in general is quite good, but there are some people who will call you down with any piece that you want to avoid doing this against.

Yeah there was a clown raising/3betting like 60% of the hands, didn't really want to be playing this hand oop against him in a 3bet pot.

I did like the turn but once he calls the turn bet, I think the river might be a shutdown. Still creates a good image for when I do have a set/ straight ey

Assignment due tomorrow, better get back to it! GL at the tables, sun night is the most profitable time to play IMO

[ugignadl]

Yeah, for us it is, since it works out well in other timezones. I can understand the PF move then, with the clown. It would be a good shutdown but yeah, only if this guy has a high WTS%.

[neverthink]

Preflop you can do any of the three. In EP like that I'd probably raise or fold it to get position or out of the hand. I don't get why you raise the turn where you have less equity rather than the flop where you are almost always a slight favourite and can make him fold as well. You rep the gutshot on the turn, but don't raise enough to ever make someone fold a reasonable hand and it definitely doesn't look like you are defending against the flush draw, so that's the first thing I'd put you on, never a set or straight. Marginal or drawing is all I'd think. River I think he's calling an awful lot unless it makes a flush possible.

Make it $29/$30 on the turn and value bet if you hit and give up if you miss. All of your fold equity is on the turn, not the river, he'll call a bunch of blanks if you let him get to the final street cheaply.

[ugignadl]

Nah I disagree. Not many people (decent players) like to call river bets with marginal holdings, so I think that is the better street to bluff, especially if you have confused the villain with a `value raise' on the turn.

Still, my prev. comment regarding the shutdown holds here.

[neverthink]

Bram, all I'll say is if you really play sets and straights like this, then you have a couple of serious postflop leaks.

[bram]

neverthink - I don't limp pp

I mix my game up, Say I did have a set I let villian catch up and hit 2 pair, is he calling a raise on the flop with middle pair no kicker? Don't think so, I don't see creativity and variety as a leak.

ugi - I normally give up on the turn with marginal holdings, 2 pair isn't a marginal holding though

[ugignadl]

Yeah, I was more talking in general.

[neverthink]

neverthink - I don't limp pp

I mix my game up, Say I did have a set I let villian catch up and hit 2 pair, is he calling a raise on the flop with middle pair no kicker? Don't think so, I don't see creativity and variety as a leak.

ugi - I normally give up on the turn with marginal holdings, 2 pair isn't a marginal holding though

Bram, while you may or may not sometimes play sets like this to be creative, you have to make sure that villain knows what you are repping. If this is how you would play a set creatively, to get paid on it, or stack a straight or flush, then it is a terrible line as a bluff by that same logic right? It's like the guy that says "but I have it much more than I don't" after he gets called down. It might be the greatest bluff in the world and a terrible call down by the other player, but if he doesn't know what you're saying, he's going to look you up a fair bit.

You don't need to defend your creativity, I have played draws just the same way, as raising flop always is kind of predictable (still good play though). The ONLY thing I hate is the size of the turn raise. I don't mind the river play as it looks like a value bet and is fine. But on the turn, your hand is definitely not clearly repped, mostly because of your weak raise (2.3x is too small). All of your fold equity is in fact on the turn because a 3.5x raise says you want to play for stacks against a marginal opponent out of position, and he'll fold, a lot.

Your turn raise is a weak bluff (river bet after it is therefore spew imho). A raise to $30 on turn is good attacking poker. I like your intent but just not how you went about it, and I think it's $8 short of being a good play.

[bram]

neverthink - I don't limp pp

I mix my game up, Say I did have a set I let villian catch up and hit 2 pair, is he calling a raise on the flop with middle pair no kicker? Don't think so, I don't see creativity and variety as a leak.

ugi - I normally give up on the turn with marginal holdings, 2 pair isn't a marginal holding though

Bram, while you may or may not sometimes play sets like this to be creative, you have to make sure that villain knows what you are repping. If this is how you would play a set creatively, to get paid on it, or stack a straight or flush, then it is a terrible line as a bluff by that same logic right? It's like the guy that says "but I have it much more than I don't" after he gets called down. It might be the greatest bluff in the world and a terrible call down by the other player, but if he doesn't know what you're saying, he's going to look you up a fair bit.

You don't need to defend your creativity, I have played draws just the same way, as raising flop always is kind of predictable (still good play though). The ONLY thing I hate is the size of the turn raise. I don't mind the river play as it looks like a value bet and is fine. But on the turn, your hand is definitely not clearly repped, mostly because of your weak raise (2.3x is too small). All of your fold equity is in fact on the turn because a 3.5x raise says you want to play for stacks against a marginal opponent out of position, and he'll fold, a lot.

Your turn raise is a weak bluff (river bet after it is therefore spew imho). A raise to $30 on turn is good attacking poker. I like your intent but just not how you went about it, and I think it's $8 short of being a good play.

great reply mate cheers, the thing is I wanted him to call the turn bet, I was building a nice pot so if one of my 16 outs fell, (34ish percent of the time or whatever) i could get a push in there.

But yes I do need to make my raises 3x instead of just over 2x,