Tight Poker

[carrera]

Two big hands today where I wasn't really sure what to do at the end. Both times I end up with 2nd nuts, and get raised.


In this hand villain is LAP

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (8 handed) TightPoker converter

saw flop

MP2 ($134.53)
CO ($52.92)
Button ($129.50)
Hero ($147.05)
BB ($191.77)
UTG ($162.16)
UTG+1 ($208.38 )
MP1 ($99)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
4 folds, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2, CO calls $2, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($12) , , (4 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls $10, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($32) (2 players)
Hero bets $20, BB calls $20.

River: ($72) (2 players)
Hero bets $40, BB raises to $80


In this hand, villain is LPP

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (8 handed) TightPoker converter

saw flop

MP2 ($94.30)
CO ($86.40)
Button ($110.25)
Hero ($189.05)
BB ($332.52)
UTG ($14.50)
UTG+1 ($299.40)
MP1 ($44.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, 2 folds, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $4, CO folds.

Flop: ($13) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG+1 calls $8.

Turn: ($29) (2 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG+1 calls $15.

River: ($59) (2 players)
Hero bets $30, UTG+1 raises to $110.33

[easy_as_pie]

POT CONTROL

[mervhage]

Call the first, you're getting 4:1, though the min raise kinda worries me.

Second hand, seems kinda out of line, so I'd call there too (3:1 odds).

[poormanbilly]

I think I check/call the river on both these hands, but maybe that's too wussie?

[carrera]

can you be more specific easy ?

[easy_as_pie]

yes of course. i just did not want to write a lot because I feel like the first people that reply to the thread influence the rest of the responses so I wanted to see what other people think....

[carrera]

ok. i'm off to bed now, so there is plenty of time for replies.

[bigdil511]

I have a Q?

What did you think he was calling you with on the flop? I also think you should raise more PF. If he is drawing to a K high flush than he has it, if you don't think so its an easy call, but on the other hand maybe you are committing yourself to much here.

Hand 2: I bet the flop, and I prolly check/call the turn, if he is calling on flush draw he made it, if he called with a king/2 pair or trips you are already dead, also I prolly check/call a decent bet on the river since only 1 card is beating you.

[kedoran]

imposible to say without reads, depends on opponent.
River: without reads i call the first one and fold second hand.


Hand 1 raise to atleast 4preflop, check turn and call bet. Bet turn if he check, check call if he bet turn.

Hand 2 I check turn flush card and fold to a any suspicious bet, your hand doesnt look good at all, no reason to bet here imo.

[easy_as_pie]

hnd1: why don't you have the full buy in?
i would raise more preflop. the flop is standard but you have to be asking yourself what hands call you here on the flop. given the texture of the board, its a scary flushed board, you have to rule out a set, two pair or other strong hands that beat you because they would probably raise. Naked k high flush draw and or lower draw plus pair make the most sense.
turn: when the spade gets there why are you betting and what does he have to have to call you there? how big of a pot do you want to play with 2nd nuts given this board? although its a decent value bet because its concievable that he might have a Js or like a badly played set, 2 pair, AK i still dont really like it. it makes the pot bigger and makes your river decision tougher, especially because you are OOP
river: your bet puts you in a really difficult spot. what are you hoping to get called by if its a value bet? you have to check call the river. this is why a turn check is crucial because it makes the pot smaller and you have an easier river dicision.you could check call 20 instead of spending 100 (turn and river). lastly, what hand min raises here except for the nuts or an elaborate bluff(i dont see this happening the way the hand played out+i don't think these players are simply capable of calling down with anything that you beat and then min raising the river like that without the nuts)? id fold cursing myself for betting 40.

hand 2 is virtually the same thing.
in each hand you have to ask yourself, i think...well at least i do, how big of a pot do you want to play with one pair or 2nd/3rd nuts on a very scary board where the nuts is very plausible. Are these players capable of making these moves on the river with something that you beat? The first opponent is LPP so he probably just calls with any hand that you beat and the second hand I am not sure but i don't see either of them bluffing on the river enough times for your call to be profitable.
Checking the turn whent the scare card gets there acomplishes two things: makes a pot smaller (good thing) and generally shows weakeness (not always true because you can be checking with the nuts). Either way, the river decision will be easier most of them time when you are playing a smaller pot. The river bets on both hands are just bad, in my opinion, just because you can't call a raise and are getting raised by the nuts more often then you are getting called by the hands that you beat to make it a profitable value bet.
cheers

[carrera]

lol, full buy in? dude it's a 100nl table, and i have 147 once, and 189 the other time...

I called first hand (didn't like it), and he had it. (K4o)

I folded second hand

my general line of thinking, was that if I checked, it would probably be hard to call his bet.

Aggression had been taking a lot of pots at the table.

facing call/call/raise is usually a sure sign you're beat, but i had to check the first time.

thanks for the remarks

[scottie_g]

2nd Hand: I don't think your turn bet is that bad. I like a check/call on the river.

[easy_as_pie]

2nd Hand: I don't think your turn bet is that bad. I like a check/call on the river.

oops...my bad

basically my point was that you are building a large pot with 2nd/3rd nuts on the board where the nuts is plausible and is very easy to represent and putting yourself in a very bad spot on the river by betting......
glad you folded 2nd hand and first hand he had Ks right as in he had you beat?