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How did I play this hand?
NL25/50 and PL25/50 poker strategy and discussionModerators: ihatejacks, Section Moderators, Moderators
How did I play this hand?
by labatsman » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:16 am
Please help
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) TightPoker converter
UTG+1 ($5.45)
MP1 ($9.76)
MP2 ($9.32)
MP3 ($4.18)
CO ($2.38)
Button ($5.12)
SB ($2.75)
Hero ($6)
UTG ($3.40)
Preflop: Hero is BB with
,
.
UTG calls $0.04, UTG+1 calls $0.04, MP1 raises to $0.12, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.12, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.08, UTG calls $0.08, UTG+1 folds.
Flop: ($0.54)
,
,
(4 players)
Hero bets $0.12, UTG calls $0.12, MP1 calls $0.12, MP3 calls $0.12.
Turn: ($1.02)
(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks.
River: ($1.02)
(4 players)
Hero bets $0.6, UTG calls $0.60, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.
Final Pot: $2.22
Main Pot: $2.22, between Hero and UTG. > Pot won by Hero ($2.22).
Results hidden below:
Hero has Th Kc (two pair, jacks and tens).
UTG has As 2h (two pair, jacks and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins $2.22.
Mods maybe we need a micro section for us micro players
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) TightPoker converter
UTG+1 ($5.45)
MP1 ($9.76)
MP2 ($9.32)
MP3 ($4.18)
CO ($2.38)
Button ($5.12)
SB ($2.75)
Hero ($6)
UTG ($3.40)
Preflop: Hero is BB with
,
.
UTG calls $0.04, UTG+1 calls $0.04, MP1 raises to $0.12, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.12, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.08, UTG calls $0.08, UTG+1 folds.
Flop: ($0.54)
,
,
(4 players)
Hero bets $0.12, UTG calls $0.12, MP1 calls $0.12, MP3 calls $0.12.
Turn: ($1.02)
(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks.
River: ($1.02)
(4 players)
Hero bets $0.6, UTG calls $0.60, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.
Final Pot: $2.22
Main Pot: $2.22, between Hero and UTG. > Pot won by Hero ($2.22).
Results hidden below:
Hero has Th Kc (two pair, jacks and tens).
UTG has As 2h (two pair, jacks and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins $2.22.
Mods maybe we need a micro section for us micro players
by ugignadl » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:26 am
I'd suggest HSNL be NL400 and up myself, and then we reshuffle to have a MSNL... anywho.
Don't like it. Fold preflop.
On the flop, you don't want to bet out. See what eventuates. It's hard to comment on these hands because the other people are mostly braindead. I'd be trying to see a showdown as cheaply as possible.
Don't like it. Fold preflop.
On the flop, you don't want to bet out. See what eventuates. It's hard to comment on these hands because the other people are mostly braindead. I'd be trying to see a showdown as cheaply as possible.
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ugignadl - Whale Hunter
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by sfustsh » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:34 am
Preflop: Fold: your hand is likely dominated or losing badly, especially without position.
Flop: Don't lead out with second pair, you are behind and a called bet gives you no information. Even a raise leaves you pretty much in the dark at this level (see why I hate NL .04?)
Turn: If you were losing the flop you're still losing here. Still, just check this hand down, with 3 callers someone is very likely to have a J.
River: Without any bets on the turn you might be ahead. But once again, I still like a check call (if the bet is reasonable, probably no more than half pot). Most of your opponents are either passive or too aggressive at this level, and may very well check a J instead of bet it here.
General advice for this level: wait for the nuts and jam it, can't really go wrong with that. Also, position is important for more reasons than at other levels. People ALWAYS think you're bluffing when you bet from last position and you will get called all the time. This is a limit that a lot of people play just to cool off, so you can't expect a lot of solid play and you can't expect your bets and raises to give you reliable information.
Flop: Don't lead out with second pair, you are behind and a called bet gives you no information. Even a raise leaves you pretty much in the dark at this level (see why I hate NL .04?)
Turn: If you were losing the flop you're still losing here. Still, just check this hand down, with 3 callers someone is very likely to have a J.
River: Without any bets on the turn you might be ahead. But once again, I still like a check call (if the bet is reasonable, probably no more than half pot). Most of your opponents are either passive or too aggressive at this level, and may very well check a J instead of bet it here.
General advice for this level: wait for the nuts and jam it, can't really go wrong with that. Also, position is important for more reasons than at other levels. People ALWAYS think you're bluffing when you bet from last position and you will get called all the time. This is a limit that a lot of people play just to cool off, so you can't expect a lot of solid play and you can't expect your bets and raises to give you reliable information.
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sfustsh - Whale Hunter
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by ctsights » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Fold pre-flop, hand is not strong esp. in ep. and with a raise to boot. The only times you are gonna feel any amount of comfort with those cards in this situation is if you flop a straight or open ended draw, 2 pr. or a set. All 3 are not worth the odds to call a raise out of position.
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ctsights - School Fish
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by mirage » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:38 pm
ctsights wrote:Fold pre-flop, hand is not strong esp. in ep. and with a raise to boot. The only times you are gonna feel any amount of comfort with those cards in this situation is if you flop a straight or open ended draw, 2 pr. or a set. All 3 are not worth the odds to call a raise out of position.
Good concise post.
Hell, even if you flop a set you could be dominated.
Also, sfustsh is right, at tiny micro stakes you don't have to chase a bunch or make elaborate bluffs. Even the 9/5 rock gets action with his aces at the micros, just play solid and bet/raise when you think you're ahead and you win.
As played I check the flop and if no one shows interest after the river blank (if it makes it that far without a bet) I might throw in 1/3 to 1/2 pot bet like you did.
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mirage - Whale Hunter
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by snickers99 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:37 pm
ctsights wrote:Fold pre-flop, hand is not strong esp. in ep. and with a raise to boot. The only times you are gonna feel any amount of comfort with those cards in this situation is if you flop a straight or open ended draw, 2 pr. or a set. All 3 are not worth the odds to call a raise out of position.
Agree.
Mirage wrote:Also, sfustsh is right, at tiny micro stakes you don't have to chase a bunch or make elaborate bluffs. Even the 9/5 rock gets action with his aces at the micros, just play solid and bet/raise when you think you're ahead and you win.
Also agree. I'm playing .02/.05 at PS and I'm amazed with what I get called down with when I have a good hand. Sit, wait, pounce. Not exciting poker, but it works at these levels.
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snickers99 - Whale Hunter
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by LadyWrestler » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:36 pm
I hope you do not mind if an ex-SNG No-Limit, and current Cash Limit player throws her 2 cents in here.
FWIWTY: I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying here, but I would like to add something. I agree with the general idea of defending your Big Blind, with KTo, to a standard raise, when it comes from the CO, Dealer or Small Blind, in an otherwise uncalled pot. But, this time you had 2 callers, a raiser (from MP1), and then another caller. At this level, you almost have to assume that at least one, and possibly both, of the original callers will also call the raise. This is too many for your KTo to duke it out with. Folding preflop is what I would have done.
FWIWTY: I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying here, but I would like to add something. I agree with the general idea of defending your Big Blind, with KTo, to a standard raise, when it comes from the CO, Dealer or Small Blind, in an otherwise uncalled pot. But, this time you had 2 callers, a raiser (from MP1), and then another caller. At this level, you almost have to assume that at least one, and possibly both, of the original callers will also call the raise. This is too many for your KTo to duke it out with. Folding preflop is what I would have done.
Last edited by LadyWrestler on Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- LadyWrestler
by labatsman » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:39 pm
Good Discussion.
Please keep in mind I am still learning cash games.
These were my thoughts...Was getting so bored being tight, I thought I would play a hand. VPIP for me was about 19% this session which is a good drastic change from my over 40%.
I know K/10 is crappy starting hand, so I played the hand obviously loosely from early position.
After the flop I bet because at this level I knew some one else would later.
After the turn I checked Implying that I had Trips...Every one checked.
The river I bet about 2/3rds of Pot.
Honest Question Was my Post flop play Bad?
Your thoughts
Please keep in mind I am still learning cash games.
These were my thoughts...Was getting so bored being tight, I thought I would play a hand. VPIP for me was about 19% this session which is a good drastic change from my over 40%.
I know K/10 is crappy starting hand, so I played the hand obviously loosely from early position.
After the flop I bet because at this level I knew some one else would later.
After the turn I checked Implying that I had Trips...Every one checked.
The river I bet about 2/3rds of Pot.
Honest Question Was my Post flop play Bad?
Your thoughts
by sfustsh » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:58 pm
labatsman wrote:The river I bet about 2/3rds of Pot.
Honest Question Was my Post flop play Bad?
Your thoughts
Let's pretend I'm villain (any one of them really, but especially the one you showed down).
You have called a preflop raise with excellent odds, you are relatively tight. I'm not sure if you're solid, so I have you on two paint cards, any pair, and possibly something like 56s or the like.
On the flop you led out into 3 people, so you likely don't have a pair of 3s, but you might have a pair of tens with a really strong kicker. Depending on my read, I might be able to eliminate suited connectors also. So now you've probably got a flush draw, a jack with a weak kicker, a ten with a strong kicker, a set of anything, or a straight draw.
On the turn your play can read lots of things. You got 3 callers, so you might choose to slow down with a pair of tens, or your flush draw might be too low ranked to play with. The only hand that really CAN'T check is a set of jacks now. It's the only hand that is confident enough that it's the best hand but can't afford to let a free one come off. You had 3 callers, so SOMEONE is on a flush draw, and I know you know this so I know you have to bet with 3 jacks. Therefore, I don't think it's likely you have 3 jacks.
On the river, the flush draw missed, and you led out. Since no one bet on the previous round, you are reasonably sure that 3 jacks aren't out there. You might bet a busted draw but you probably won't, so your bet is really only indicitive of a pair of tens.
So I'm not saying you can't have 3 jacks or trips, but if I wanted to represent them from the flop I'd have bet again on the turn. If I'm your opponent I have you about 75% 2nd pair strong kicker, 20% set of trips or jacks, and 5% busted flush or straight draw.
Of course, take MY advice with a grain of salt, I'm not that confident about it
EDIT: I forgot that JT can play as you have on this hand, but that's just really unlikely as it is, so maybe like 1% JT, hehe.
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sfustsh - Whale Hunter
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