Underpair in big reraised pot, no c-bet, thoughts?

[neverthink]

Well, if I c-bet it is basically a bluff. If I am called I am behind, and all worse hands fold if I am in fact value betting. Seems like a bad spot to bet when I get no value when leading and lose cash on the c-bet when she calls. I could see some sense in betting if I held 99 because it's potentially possible that I could fold out a better hand like TT or JJ that villain may play this way, but as it stands, my hand is quite showdownable, yet I will only ever get value for it post flop by calling rather than betting.

betting the flop makes the hand much easier to play, and there is value in it. of course you're bluffing, but usually, there isn't any value to be made. betting the flop lets you take down the pot a lot of the time. by checking, you have no idea where you are at, and many villains will try and bluff you off of QQ/KK. even if they have a low PP and don't bet (which is basically the best case scenario), at least you don't give them the 10% chance to hit their set.

Betting the hand does make it far easier to play, it´s just fire and forget, and I appreciate what you´re saying. But I disagree that there is value in it. By all means you may be correct that at higher limits, but I am not playing a higher limit player. Even against good players, sometimes the optimal line for profit I would have thought would be precisely to let her try and bluff me off KK, QQ with worse. I really doubt that many would fire 2 streets (all in in this case) in a bluff attempt, as there is no saying I am not just slowplaying a monster or a hand whereby betting brings no value eg. AK, AQ.


I g2go now, I´ll answer your other post later (my comp is away having surgery done on it, this is works comp). Chrs for you opinions though.

[goofyballer]

What's up with the turn c/r?????

Also, cavman's made some really good posts here.

[neverthink]

What's up with the turn c/r?????

Also, cavman's made some really good posts here.

Yeah, Cav´s replies all have a logic to them, and are the standard plays to make imo. No bad advice in any of them.

The turn check raise was just opportunistic. Her bet was so small I could make a reasonable raise to get her to fold a weak hand or check behind on the river. I could also play the river perfectly a high percentage of the time as a hand I beat would never call CR and then bet the river.

I don´t think I would be in this situation against a good player because what could a good player possibly hold playing preflop like that? Pocket pairs would be folded to my 4x reraise, SCs as well, and a good player would have folded most or reraised a big Ace. Ace rag is never in a good players range post flop. Doing that wouldn´t be loose, it would be a losing play.

[goofyballer]

In some twisted fashion your c/r may have turned out to be for value, b/c I can see villain being confused as shit when, in a $35 pot, he leads for 1/5 pot and you barely make a minimum raise. He might call here with 88 or whater because the amount to which you raised is so bizarre; most of the time though, check-raising is essentially turning a decent hand (given preflop and flop action, you have a reasonable expectation of being ahead here) into a bluff (b/c when he folds a "weak hand" you pretty much gain nothing, as you were ahead anyway, and he's never folding a hand that beats you).

[neverthink]

LOL, value betting hadn't crossed my mind at the time but you are probably right under some circumstances. Usually bad players like this villain will think you are trying to steal craftily and often call with a lesser hand. The C/R was just to try and get her to check it down on the river. I thought that check raising to an amount I was ok with would be cheaper than check/calling 2 streets. It was only because she had made an initial bet that was so small.

Against semi-decent players, this, as you say would be a waste of money nearly all of the time.

For the record, in case I hadn't mentioned it, she flipped over Ace rag for top pair. The bitch .