Insta-fold or what

[easy_as_pie]

QQ is a favored over AsKs. if you are properely rolled for the game it is correct to call/push over the villain if you are sure he has AsKs.

If merv was to push it would look very much like AK or worse. personally I will be inclined to call with QQ

[/quote]

[neverthink]

There aren't many hands that are better than AKs. In fact the only hands that are for sure better are AA and KK. All other hands are losers or a coin flip at best (AK races against pocket pairs).

That's exactly the line of thought that causes AK to be severely overplayed. No matter how you look at it it is still a drawing hand and usually needs help to win.

Calling an all in with AK is bad, shoving it is not quite so though. This is assuming you stand to lose one buy in or less. Personally, I only consider it pushable in terms of calling all in after I've put money in a pot and a shortstack shoves for 40 blinds or whatever, even then though I may fold it coz losing 40 blinds on a coinflip is not preferable. If a deepstacked player (one buyin or more) insists he has one of the big hands (TT-AA, AK or (AQ 6 max)) from preflop play, then shoving AK is dangerous, but potentially profitable, as good players can often fold Tens thru Queens, and some weak/tight players will fold KK. Given that you hold an Ace and a King, there is less likelihood of the opponent reraising with AA or KK. This is pushing very marginal edges though that are totally unnecessary at our stakes. Sometimes it is ok combined with fold equity however.

It is overplayed by many players though and does not have anywhere near the fold equity it carries in tournaments, and is usually only played so strongly in tournaments in desperate situations, not through choice. Appreciate that these same situations call for the same aggressive line with any pocket pair as well, and you aren't all shoving with your ducks are you?

[neverthink]

QQ is a favored over AsKs. if you are properely rolled for the game it is correct to call/push over the villain if you are sure he has AsKs.

If merv was to push it would look very much like AK or worse. personally I will be inclined to call with QQ

[/quote]

I would shove AA and KK in Merv's spot. Why leave the rest of the kids behind, meh?

[sfustsh]

as good players can often fold Tens thru Queens, and some weak/tight players will fold KK.

I can count on my nose the number of times I've folded KK preflop.

Once, and that was a ridiculous hand.

You have got to be REALLY weak and REALLY tight to ever fold KK preflop.

[neverthink]

You do not have to be really tight or really weak to fold Kings preflop if there are many reasons to support it being the best choice. The only absolute preflop is AA because it is the nuts, and that is only in cash games.

In fact I would say that it is a very strong move if you can bring yourself to fold Kings preflop if present information suggests that you are beat.

Lets not hijack the thread though.

[ugignadl]

Fold Ks preflop? Never done it. Don't expect to.

Back to the hand: with these stacks it's an easy fold IMO. Shoving is terrible because you

a) lose your postflop edge
b) get called by hands that are beating you (coinflips are not always coinflips)

NLMan makes a nice point about the odds, however I think with absolutely ZERO reads, you can't remove the (rather large) possibility that KK or AA are in play here.

[neverthink]

Fold Ks preflop? Never done it. Don't expect to.

Back to the hand: with these stacks it's an easy fold IMO. Shoving is terrible because you

a) lose your postflop edge
b) get called by hands that are beating you (coinflips are not always coinflips)

NLMan makes a nice point about the odds, however I think with absolutely ZERO reads, you can't remove the (rather large) possibility that KK or AA are in play here.

Reads make all the difference. If the first raise is an aggro player he might have 78o and it means nothing, so the reraiser could have, even for a really tight player, nines, tens, or AQ. If they both learned in Dallas, then the reraise means AA or KK 90 percent of the time, so shoving ain't a good idea.