Insta-fold or what

[mervhage]

This is the very first hand at this table.

***** Hand History for Game 5300744011 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, October 02, 21:34:46 ET 2006
Table Table 107951 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: PayHerePlease ( $23.65 )
Seat 2: danakes ( $46.03 )
Seat 3: D_200 ( $40.63 )
Seat 5: bryanh888 ( $17.99 )
Seat 4: mervhage ( $25 )
Seat 6: EZsMustang ( $24.75 )
D_200 posts small blind [$0.10].
mervhage posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mervhage [ ]
bryanh888 raises [$2.17].
EZsMustang folds.
PayHerePlease folds.
danakes raises [$5].
D_200 folds.
mervhage????

My initial action was going to be to raise the UTG to ~$4.50 to $5. I always reraise with AK and have been very successful in doing so, by defining my hand and going from there. Anyhow, button reraise changes a lot, should I just fold or what??

Results below:












mervhage folds.
bryanh888 calls [$2.83].
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
bryanh888 checks.
danakes bets [$10].
bryanh888 is all-In [$12.99]
danakes calls [$2.99].
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
danakes shows [ , ] a flush, ace high.
bryanh888 doesn't show [ , ] two pairs, aces and nines.
danakes wins $34.53 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
wtf

Idiots.

[sfustsh]

I tend to let that go because you need to raise fairly significantly to force out bryanh888. AK is a great hand but not a favorite against pairs, especially two. Obviously, you didn't know that but I fold most of the time in the BB, especially two bet. I don't think raising is too bad of a move, but calling is out of the question.

I really like how bryanh888 went all in with two overcards. He must have a good job to support his gambling losses.

[easy_as_pie]

stats and or image on both villains helps?

danakes raise looks scary because he is raising a UTG player but i think that if he had anything "good" he will raise much more then $5. Therefore, I at call or 4-bet (all depending on the images/stats of each villain)

[ugignadl]

Just specifically on your move preflop...this is extremely read dependent. If I had absolutely no feeling at all on the players then I reraise again.

I'd make it ~$10 to go.

*edit: Crap, $25NL? I guess you have to fold. How boner.

[kedoran]

I call unless one of them are rocky

[mervhage]

Definitely, if I had some reads, then I would probably not even post this hand, or at least I'd have a better idea how to proceed. However, this was the very first hand at this table.

[neverthink]

I'd shove it or fold it, dpends on my mood and their play. Shows how much importance position plays in a hand.

[nlman]

Shoving it all in should give me great odds, but it would be very read dependent (as many people already mentioned). If the one who reraised it is very tight, I'll assume that he has AA or KK and fold. If the first one has like 2% PFR, I'll fold too

But generally (with most of the other hands), I hate being stuck between 2 preflop raisers, so I'll usually fold.

[mewsiclovr]

If this is your first hand I'm pretty sure shoving is bad, since players tend to not believe people who have just sat down and will likely not fold their pair.

My .02.

[nlman]

If this is your first hand I'm pretty sure shoving is bad, since players tend to not believe people who have just sat down and will likely not fold their pair.

This isn't a bluff! AKs is one of the best hands. It doesn't matter what they do:

1) If they fold, I'll win it right away.
2) If one of them calls I'll have about 50% chance to double up (UNLESS he has AA or KK, of course).
3) If both of them call I'll have even better odds, I think, because I'll have like 40% chance to 3x my money (UNLESS one of them has AA or KK, of course).

As you can see, the odds are great IF they don't have AA or KK. And that is where your read comes into play.

[mervhage]

I was fairly close to shoving. I think the reason I didn't is b/c I'd hate to lose a buyin on the first hand (no telling what 77 would have done if I shoved and UTG called), whereas I usually manage to double up through somebody at some point. I guess I figured I'd take my chances and wait.

I also like what neverthink said, sometimes these decisions are mood-dependent!

[easy_as_pie]

i think that shoving with AK is pretty bad in NL but people do it a lot.

its a tourney mentality and you will get called by better hands for sure.

[sfustsh]

i think that shoving with AK is pretty bad in NL but people do it a lot.

its a tourney mentality and you will get called by better hands for sure.

There aren't many hands that are better than AKs. In fact the only hands that are for sure better are AA and KK. All other hands are losers or a coin flip at best (AK races against pocket pairs).

That said, I don't like to put my money on AKs against two raisers in a cash game. If I was going to play this, I'd have to shove, because you don't have position. You CANNOT call here, you have bad position and you haven't done anything but forfieted the aggression in the hand.

[mewsiclovr]

There aren't many hands that are better than AKs. In fact the only hands that are for sure better are AA and KK. All other hands are losers or a coin flip at best (AK races against pocket pairs).

That's exactly the line of thought that causes AK to be severely overplayed. No matter how you look at it it is still a drawing hand and usually needs help to win.

[sfustsh]

There aren't many hands that are better than AKs. In fact the only hands that are for sure better are AA and KK. All other hands are losers or a coin flip at best (AK races against pocket pairs).

That's exactly the line of thought that causes AK to be severely overplayed. No matter how you look at it it is still a drawing hand and usually needs help to win.

Just to clarify, I agree with you. It just happens to be the strongest drawing hand there is. That's why I said earlier that I don't like to call with 2 raisers.

For tournaments, I push here all the time early. It's a make or break play but you're getting the best of it.