KK...

[scottie_g]

Villain is 24/16/2.6

Should I have been scared of a set here?


***** Hand History for Game 4328574019 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 21, 19:12:05 ET 2006
Table Table 96902 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 6: PuffintheAM ( $159.79 )
Seat 4: myDawn ( $130.98 )
Seat 1: beepbeep10 ( $71.80 )
Seat 2: roblucky3030 ( $56.95 )
Seat 3: BABA7711 ( $23 )
myDawn posts small blind [$0.50].
PuffintheAM posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PuffintheAM [ Kc Kh ]
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
beepbeep10 raises [$3].
roblucky3030 folds.
BABA7711 folds.
myDawn calls [$2.50].
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
>You have options at Table 96405 Table!.
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
PuffintheAM raises [$10].
beepbeep10 folds.
myDawn calls [$8].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 7d, 3c ]
myDawn checks.
PuffintheAM bets [$21.69].
myDawn raises [$57].
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
PuffintheAM calls [$35.31].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qc ]
myDawn is all-In [$62.98]
PuffintheAM folds.
myDawn does not show cards.
myDawn wins $199.98

[poormanbilly]

Who knows, but if you call the flop check/raise, you need to expect to play for the rest of villain's stack. I'd either fold or push after the check/raise.

[goofyballer]

Raise more preflop, to about $12 or so?

On a drier board I might be afraid of a set, but there are too many combo draw-type hands that a TAG villain would go nuts with on this board for me to lay down, imo.

I agree with Billy; if you're putting in any more $$ after your c-bet gets raised, you're playing for your stack.

[mervhage]

Raise more preflop, to about $12 or so?

On a drier board I might be afraid of a set, but there are too many combo draw-type hands that a TAG villain would go nuts with on this board for me to lay down, imo.

I agree with Billy; if you're putting in any more $$ after your c-bet gets raised, you're playing for your stack.

echo echo. I'd push, he'd call, turn over a set and I'd bitch about how unlucky I am.

[bram]

hey I would probably raise preflop to 12-15 for starters

Think about how he played the hand preflop - called 2 raises sounds like he was set mining with a middle to low pair, he could well have 99 1010 JJ but I think with those hands he would have raised the original bet by bleepbleep10.

that is a big reraise and it would appear that he hit a set and is scared of the 3rd diamond hitting the board so is betting it hard. I would fold and cut my loses to 31.69. Sure sometimes you will catch someone on a bluff and your kings will stand up but against someone with 24/16/2.6 I dont think your looking flash.

Flat calling when villian is pot committed is only worth doing when you have the nuts.

ps: hey everyone I am back from my holiday to thailand looking forward to contributing to the excellent discussions on here again, peace James

[goofyballer]

against someone with 24/16/2.6 I dont think your looking flash.

At higher limits, my observations are that TAG (with emphasis on the "AG") players do a LOT of semi-bluffing in these situations.

[bram]

against someone with 24/16/2.6 I dont think your looking flash.

At higher limits, my observations are that TAG (with emphasis on the "AG") players do a LOT of semi-bluffing in these situations.

ohh yeah sorry I haven't used poker tracker for a while and forgot what that last digit meant

I am just trying to work out what mydawn could hold, his raise on the flop isn't that bad a play if he thinks scottie has AK, AQ. The problem I have with it is that he isn't deep enough to not be pot committed once he made this raise, he might well have 1010 JJ or QQ and think he is good with his overpair but to me I would think a set because he has raised so hard which would signal to me that he is scared of the diamand flush coming on the turn. Also I think he knows that scottie isn't just making a c-bet as he bets 20BB which is large for a leading out c-bet.

Usual disclaimer of everything being read dependent blah blah, it is a excellent play if you put the player on a smaller overpair than yours but I'd say a set. Just out of interest how agressive is 2.6? I'm a poker tracker dunce it has to be said.

[scottie_g]

I talked to the guy a few hands later and he said he had JJ. He didn't believe that I laid down KK. Who knows if he's telling the truth though.

I guess the min-raise threw me off. Why would a TAG player min-raise me on a flop that has straight and flush draws? Doesn't he realize he's giving me odds to then draw to a straight or flush?

If he had pushed the flop, I would have considered calling and would have put him on TT - QQ.

[poormanbilly]

I guess the min-raise threw me off. Why would a TAG player min-raise me on a flop that has straight and flush draws? Doesn't he realize he's giving me odds to then draw to a straight or flush?

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. If he had a set, aren't you still getting odds to call with a flush or straight draw?

Edit: OK, after looking at it again, it was more than a min raise, so the numbers aren't quite there, but I'm still not understanding how min raise = set.

[scottie_g]

I guess the min-raise threw me off. Why would a TAG player min-raise me on a flop that has straight and flush draws? Doesn't he realize he's giving me odds to then draw to a straight or flush?

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. If he had a set, aren't you still getting odds to call with a flush or straight draw?

Edit: OK, after looking at it again, it was more than a min raise, so the numbers aren't quite there, but I'm still not understanding how min raise = set.

Right, I'm getting 3:1 to call this. So not quite enough for a straight or flush, unless there are added implied odds.

[mousey]

Villain is 24/16/2.6

Should I have been scared of a set here?

***** Hand History for Game 4328574019 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, May 21, 19:12:05 ET 2006
Table Table 96902 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 6: PuffintheAM ( $159.79 )
Seat 4: myDawn ( $130.98 )
Seat 1: beepbeep10 ( $71.80 )
Seat 2: roblucky3030 ( $56.95 )
Seat 3: BABA7711 ( $23 )
myDawn posts small blind [$0.50].
PuffintheAM posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PuffintheAM [ Kc Kh ]
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
beepbeep10 raises [$3].
roblucky3030 folds.
BABA7711 folds.
myDawn calls [$2.50].
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
>You have options at Table 96405 Table!.
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
PuffintheAM raises [$10].
beepbeep10 folds.
myDawn calls [$8].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 7d, 3c ]
myDawn checks.
PuffintheAM bets [$21.69].
myDawn raises [$57].
>You have options at Table 96410 Table!.
PuffintheAM calls [$35.31]. <================ WTF?!?!?!?!
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qc ]
myDawn is all-In [$62.98]
PuffintheAM folds.
myDawn does not show cards.
myDawn wins $199.98

He raises:
AK, AQ, QQ, KK, AA, AJ, AKs, AQs, JJ, TT

You are afraid of two of them. Answer; ALL IN ON THE FLOP !!!!

WHY DIDNT YOU POUND HIM !?!?!?

Also note; a push like this means he is afraid of the scare card. Easy call on turn. Even easier push on flop.

[goofyballer]

Mousey, perhaps you didn't notice that villain cold-called a raise twice preflop?

[scottie_g]

He raises:
AK, AQ, QQ, KK, AA, AJ, AKs, AQs, JJ, TT

You are afraid of two of them. Answer; ALL IN ON THE FLOP !!!!

WHY DIDNT YOU POUND HIM !?!?!?

Also note; a push like this means he is afraid of the scare card. Easy call on turn. Even easier push on flop.

I was afraid of a set. I decided to call and re-evaluate on the turn. I was hoping he would check the turn and I could take down the pot right there.

[easy_as_pie]

agree with everybody here
as mousey said...easy push on flop and trivial call on the turn
which hands cc given the flop action in his position qq/jj and AK are the most likely candidates. You also have to throw in AA there as well as 1010 like 5% of the time but thats irrelevant

i like the flop play if you are planning to stack him on the turn but i would push the flop

[mousey]

He raises:
AK, AQ, QQ, KK, AA, AJ, AKs, AQs, JJ, TT

You are afraid of two of them. Answer; ALL IN ON THE FLOP !!!!

WHY DIDNT YOU POUND HIM !?!?!?

Also note; a push like this means he is afraid of the scare card. Easy call on turn. Even easier push on flop.

I was afraid of a set. I decided to call and re-evaluate on the turn. I was hoping he would check the turn and I could take down the pot right there.

His stats are too tight for a 77 / 88 cold call. The only REAL hand you are afraid of is AA and QQ, and someone with those stats more often than not will pound the pot preflop with those hands so you can rule out those hands leaving AK, AQ, AKs, AQs, JJ, TT and MAYBE 99 as a list of possible holdings. Of which you beat all of them.

And out of the number of calling hands from a semi tight player I would have put him on AQ first and foremost followed by JJ with a turn push to buy the pot.