2/4, KK runs into ace, call down?

[goofyballer]

Villain is a fucking douchebag that sucked out on me earlier in a blind battle; he raised from SB with JJ, I called with A3s, I spiked an ace and called down his bets the whole way. Oh, wait, THE FUCKER HIT HIS TWO OUTER ON THE RIVER. I'm not bitter. His stats are something like 18/8/2.5.



Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) TightPoker converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with , . CO posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) , , (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero...

[mervhage]

Wow, this is pretty tough. I'd probably call it down, though I might not like it, if nothing more than for the info.

[biggle10]

Options:
1.) Fold. Not horrible if villain is non-tricky.

2.) Call. If he's a bluffing, he's drawing thin and might bluff the river.

3.) Raise and fold to a 3-bet. Check behind on the river. Costs the same as calling down while charging flush draw and gaining a bet when you spike the non-club K which I recommend you should do on this hand.

I choose 3,1,2 in that order.

[ugignadl]

Argh! NIGHTMARE! I hate this hand. Great one to post. I like hearing other players' thoughts.

I FOLD. Here is why:

Call: Calling is only good if he is bluffing, AND misses his draw. If he is not bluffing he bets the river and you have to fold or reraise, which is even worse than this situation. If he checks the river then you are still in trouble...but I don't see him checking the river.

Raise: Raising is tricky. If he is a little passive/weak then you could hope he puts you on two pair aces up (and he doesn't have the same) or better. But I don't think he's bluffing, and unless he is really weak he will call a raise with aces. Argh, danger, danger! If I raised it and he called or reraised then that's an easy fold.

So I fold. Damn.

[goofyballer]

If he is a little passive/weak then you could hope he puts you on two pair aces up (and he doesn't have the same) or better.

Not in a million years. I have A9 0% of the time, and if he has an ace then it's very unlikely I have the two remaining aces.

Biggle, does villain ever have QQ/JJ here? In that case, I want him firing again on the river (instead of folding to our turn raise), right?

[biggle10]

Biggle, does villain ever have QQ/JJ here? In that case, I want him firing again on the river (instead of folding to our turn raise), right?

Possible but leaning towards unlikely. QQ/JJ often cap and lead. This could be TT-88 with good hand reading skills. The more I think about it, villain's range where you are good is small enough that I'm leaning towards fold.

Just noticed this was full table. I fold. I stay in the hand at 6max.

[caffiend]

You'll have to run this hand through some percentage of the time, otherwise people with flush draws will always push you off your hand when a scare card comes out. So the only questions are his range under the gun and how you can get through the hand cheapest.

Against someone who's positionally aware, and only holding AK or better as early as he's sitting in the hand I think it's a reasonable fold based on the fact that a flush draw is unlikely. Against a nitwit I might try running it through though.

The same thing applies to either raising or calling down. I generally prefer calling down because it gives you a chance to win the showdown while raising can cost you the whole pot. But if he's tricky you need to raise here occasionally to stop him from robbing you blind.

[alanpsych]

Can you think of any other times he's donked the turn like this? I don't see this as a flush draw, otherwise he's betting or c/r'ing the flop. The "he'll be afraid of the ace" seems pretty unlikely for the type of player you describe (=not too bright).

fwiw, in my limited experience at $2/4 and lower, I've found these types of hands to be just too expensive to call down. Yes, I've had people push me off my PP with worse hands, but it happens pretty seldom.

If you have some idea that this guy is capable of making plays, then maybe call down. However, in my experience, even if you fold and he shows you 72o or a flush draw, he'll more than pay you back in value bets in the future. I only call down vs. a certified LAGtard, which this guy certainly is not.

[caffiend]

The "he'll be afraid of the ace" seems pretty unlikely for the type of player you describe (=not too bright).

The more interesting question is what sort of stupid he is. Perhaps the smartest thing to do holding an ace here is to check-raise the turn, given that there's every reason to think you'll bet it again.

I'd probably fold, given that he's prone to chasing and betting out. But I'd look up a habitual check raiser there.