Passive Play

[fatlane]

I've just started playing 25/NL and I'm having a real problem dealing with passive play. Is this kind of play typical at this low level? Are these newbies who are playing scared or don't know how to bet their hands, or am I just stumbling upon the wrong tables?

My game of choice is 3/6 limit at my local casino. I'm use to loose play and some passive play, but this was getting rediculous.

Online I usually stick to sit and go's. Now i'm verturing into table games.

Anyhow, earlier this evening, for the first time in my life I stormed away from my computer in a full blown steaming hissy fit. I went and enjoyed a nice dinner. Came back sat down and thought about how I was going approach this next session. I vowed to play very tight and monitor my opponents and don't get too agressive until I had a monster hand.

I should have given myself more time. I was already on full tilt after the flop of the very first first hand.

This session lasted one hand. Keep in mind that I know that this hand was played completely wrong. I never should have called the re-raise. But I was not in my right mind. I figured I had lost this hand to A3 or A6, but I didn't care I was playing the part of the martyr and by God I wanted to see what he had. When I saw what he acually had, I vowed to give up poker alltogether. But I've come to my senses and I feel better now.

This hand is posted for your amusment below.

My question(s)... Should I expect this type of play when playing 25/NL? Should I move up a level or two to avoid these types? Is there a viable strategy for this kind of play?

When I say "this type of play", I'm not talking about me calling away all my money on the first hand (i'm sure they were disapointed when I didn't re-load). I'm talking about not raising pre-flop with suited AK.

Without some kind of strategy what's the point? Does Party Poker have slot machines yet?

***** Hand History for Game 3827443077 *****
$25 NL Texas Holdem - Sunday, March 26, 18:32:25 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1211067 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: PokerLove54 ( $36.15 )
Seat 2: StevemacQQ ( $85.92 )
Seat 4: vince2 ( $26.30 )
Seat 5: ampmanbl ( $24.30 )
Seat 6: stealthtt385 ( $25 )
Seat 7: isubig12 ( $4.60 )
Seat 8: YepSNAFU ( $25.70 )
Seat 9: Gemballa2006 ( $17.95 )
Seat 10: Gregor_Samsa ( $22.90 )
Seat 3: FatLane ( $15 )
isubig12 posts small blind [$0.10].
YepSNAFU posts big blind [$0.25].
FatLane posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to FatLane [ 9h Ah ]
Gemballa2006 calls [$0.25].
Gregor_Samsa folds.
PokerLove54 folds.
StevemacQQ folds.
FatLane checks.
vince2 calls [$0.25].
ampmanbl folds.
isubig12 folds.
YepSNAFU checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 6d, Ad ]
YepSNAFU checks.
Gemballa2006 checks.
FatLane bets [$1].
vince2 calls [$1].
YepSNAFU folds.
Gemballa2006 raises [$5.74].
FatLane calls [$4.74].
vince2 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
Gemballa2006 bets [$9].
FatLane is all-In [$9.01]
Gemballa2006 calls [$0.01].
** Dealing River ** [ 8d ]
Gemballa2006 shows [ Ks, As ] a pair of aces.
FatLane doesnt show [ 9h, Ah ] a pair of aces.
Gemballa2006 wins $30.05 from the main pot with a pair of aces with king kicker.

[biggle10]

At low limits you can't expect opponents to play logically.

[lsutiger]

Inexperienced players put the same weight on A2 as Ak - They are pointless unless they hit

Tricky players who like to play like idiots want to trap inexperienced players who play A2 and A3.

You will get burned all the time in 25NL - just remember you are looking for long term profits, not winning ever hand.

I specifically enjoy losing KK to Q3s or T9 - those were some of the beats that people have hammered on me.

The connundrum of low limits is that if you raise high, then no one will play (usually - I did lose AA to 66 all in PF), but if you raise low, then anyone will see a flop.

Expect variance, play how you know is right (make the correct decision - laying down A9 should not be too hard - you are losing to AJ as well limping AJ from EP is a standard play I would make...).

It sucks, but that is poker. I much prefer NL because you can occiaisionally muscle people out and you can always make people pay for their draws and exact your fee when they miss.

[kedoran]

I fold that on the flop without a read

[goofyballer]

I killed NL 25 playing a very aggressive game. The key is being selectively aggressive. I throw out a continuation bet on the flop 90% of the time after I raise pre-flop, regardless of whether or not it hit me, and most of the time people fold. Reads are important though, if some dude is a calling station and gonna call down my unpaired KQ with A-high then you obviously slow down.

Marginal hands in unraised pots = easy easy fold here.

Keep posting hands, it's the best way to learn.

Oh, and screw full ring - go play 6-max. Full ring is full of set miners. 6-max players are worse which == more money for you.

[scotty1139]

Oh, and screw full ring - go play 6-max. Full ring is full of set miners. 6-max players are worse which == more money for you.

It might take you a bit of time to ramp up your aggressiveness, but Goofy makes a good suggestion, there are some absolutely god awful players there. Seat selection is another important factor, though.

[cavman]

My question(s)... Should I expect this type of play when playing 25/NL?

players at all levels mix up their play. limping with AK is not standard, but some players do it. many are fed up with missing with AK and play it very passively. This is probably not the optimal strategy, but not very uncommon.

Should I move up a level or two to avoid these types?

terrible logic. you should learn to exploit bad players, not try and play good ones. no decent players are going to play so straightforward so they are easy to beat.

Is there a viable strategy for this kind of play?

in this case, fold quickly on the flop. don't call just to see what someone had

[ugignadl]

Fatlane, that there is an easy fold for you after the turn, and also an easy fold for you on the flop. A9 is a danger hand in that the 9, if paired, is rarely the best pair, and the A, if paired, is rarely going to outkick any other A. And noobs love to play with their aces.

Also lots of `pros' online despise AK, and will not raise with it PF at all. Best to note this in the player notes when you see it happen.

[fatlane]

Fatlane, that there is an easy fold for you after the turn, and also an easy fold for you on the flop.

Also lots of `pros' online despise AK, and will not raise with it PF at all. Best to note this in the player notes when you see it happen.

I agree. Normally I wouldn't play this hand. The only reason I saw the flop with it is because I had already posted the BB.

If I had been in my right mind I would have folded after the raise on the flop. I was not in a good mental condition condition to be making finacial decisions.

Thanks for the heads-up about the pro's and AK, i'll keep a cautious eye out for that play from both the sneaky and the scared.

Going over my logs of the last 1500 hands, I was dealt the A9s 30 times. Of those I only saw a flop 30% of the time, half of those from from the blinds.

I think most of you will all agree that one of the best ways to win with A9s, is demonstrated in the hand below. lol


***** Hand History for Game 3796014851 *****
NL Texas Holdem Trny:21265940 Level:3 Blinds(50/100) - Wednesday, March 22, 03:12:00 ET 2006
Table Regular(638758) Table #14 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Smokin__Joe ( $3746 )
Seat 2: jaku78 ( $2400 )
Seat 3: gredan ( $1387 )
Seat 5: FatLane ( $4718 )
Seat 6: xdytem ( $12907 )
Seat 7: fifthstreetk ( $2296 )
Seat 8: TJMcLIII ( $8056 )
Seat 9: bookie70 ( $2360 )
Seat 10: EZYJIM ( $1815 )
Seat 4: GentleWind11 ( $9424 )
Trny:21265940 Level:3
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to FatLane [ As 9s ]
xdytem folds.
fifthstreetk folds.
TJMcLIII folds.
bookie70 folds.
EZYJIM folds.
Smokin__Joe folds.
jaku78 folds.
gredan folds.
GentleWind11 folds.
FatLane shows [ As, 9s ] high card ace.
FatLane wins 150 chips from the main pot with high card ace.
Game #3796015947 starts.

[goofyballer]

I agree. Normally I wouldn't play this hand. The only reason I saw the flop with it is because I had already posted the BB.

FWIW, in an NL cash game (and this is definitely a big difference between full ring and 6-max), I'm raising preflop with A9s to steal blinds 100% of the time in LP and probably also behind a loos limper to try to isolate myself against them.

[ugignadl]

I agree. Normally I wouldn't play this hand. The only reason I saw the flop with it is because I had already posted the BB.

FWIW, in an NL cash game (and this is definitely a big difference between full ring and 6-max), I'm raising preflop with A9s to steal blinds 100% of the time in LP and probably also behind a loos limper to try to isolate myself against them.

Just to be clear, you are talking about NL6max here, right? I still suck at that version of the game .

[goofyballer]

I don't have a lot of full ring experience, but assuming the same conditions (stealing blinds or in late position behind one loose limper) I'd still do it. 6-max in theory is the same as a full ring game where the first three positions have folded. In practice, it's much looser than that.