Caffiend University
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Caffiend University
by caffiend » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:39 pm
Caveat Emptor! Some of this information is out of date. Stars rakes the microlimit games now, casino.net changed their bonus terms, some games have tightened up, etc. It's probably best if you ask specific questions in new threads. ie, I have X dollars and want to play game Y. What are the best promotion/site/stakes combination for me. [8AUG06]
This work in progress is a supplement to the bonus guide, designed to help you use bonuses and promotions to turn yourself into a solid poker player. It is not a get rich quick scheme, there are faster ways to clear bonuses. Rather, this guide lets you clear them most efficiently, so that your game and bankroll increase at a similar pace.
Each course has a number and dollar amount. The dollar amount is the suggested minimum bankroll to attempt that bonus. The course numbers are the suggested stakes to play at, 100 level courses are nano/micro-limit games, 200 small stakes, etc.
Freshman Orientation
Before moving on to actual playing you should have a fundamental understanding of poker, particuarly Texas Hold'em. In particular you should know the rank of hands and understand the concept of pot odds. You'll also want to eventually invest in tools to help you improve.
The first thing you'll want, even before books, is a copy of Poker Tracker. Without tracking your play, you'll have no idea if you're winning, or which areas need improvement. Start with the Hold'em version, and eventually grab the Omaha and Stud ones when you start playing those games.
The second thing you'll want is a poker library. When you're starting out, a good book is much cheaper than learning the hard way. The leaders in poker publishing are Cardoza and 2+2, which are engaged in sort of a cold war. Typically, fans of one will tell you books by the other stink. The truth is somewhat more complicated. All poker books suck rocks, and both publishers have a couple nice titles. My personal suggestions are:
Super System - Good introduction to Texas Hold'em and the best for Seven Card Stud.
Super System 2 - Best for Triple Draw and Omaha, very good for mid-limit Hold'em, and passably ok for Seven Card Stud High/Low. Very good combined with the original.
Mike Caro University of Poker - Obviously not a book, but home of several though provoking past articles from various magazines.
Other noteworthy books:
Winning Low-Limit Hold'em - Sort of sucks, but is cheap. And honestly, the defensive style of play it preaches isn't really bad for the novice player. Think of it as a book that will prevent big losses, but also limit your big wins.
Small Stakes Hold'em - Some people swear by it, I was unimpressed. Of course, I'm not the target audience for the book. It may have made a lasting impression if I'd learned anything by reading it.
You may eventually want a copy of Stat King which will simplify tracking your wins across games and locations, especially if you play both online and live.
Finally, you'll need a Neteller account with at least $50 in it.
Personal Finance 101
Virtually everyone underestimates how much money you need to play poker. If you make it a rule to play within your bankroll you'll already have a leg up on the competition. The following guidelines are relatively safe while building your bankroll:
a. 300 times the upper limit for fixed limit games, and drop down if you fall below 200.
b. 15 maximum buy-ins for variable limit games, and drop down if you fall below 10.
c. 25 STT buy-ins, and drop down if you fall below 15.
Remember, the smaller your bankroll compared to the stakes, the more likely you'll go broke. You should also bear in mind that taking money out of your bankroll significantly increases the risk of going broke. Should you stop letting your winnings add to your roll, you'll need a much larger one than suggested above.
Many people seem oblivious to a simple truth; the larger your bankroll is, the more important it is to protect it. The value of your bankroll is simple to measure, it's money! Obviously busting a $50 bankroll sucks, but not nearly as much as busting a $50,000 one. If you're fortunate enough to move to high stakes poker, leave yourself some extra cushion to absorb swings.
As you move through the guide, you'll see that each course has a dollar range next to it. The lower end is what you need to safely attempt it, and the upper end is what you'll need to move on to later ones.
Poker Affiliates 101
A poker affiliate is someone who gets compensated by poker sites for signing up new members. Affiliates, in turn, attract players by offering free gifts, special bonuses, or returning a portion of their compensation to you (rake back). You should do a bit of research first then, and pick the best deal for you.
The best deal isn't always the most valuable. For example, taking a $30 book rather than a $50 cash bonus is obviously a bad deal. That is, unless you have limited funds and can't spare the $30 for the book. In that case your choices may be a $50 bonus you'll lose money clearing, or a free book which will help you win hundreds of dollars. That book's looking a lot better.
Rakeback can be equally tricky, because most sites deduct any bonuses earned from your rakeback payments. So, if you're only going to play a site once, or whenever they offer a reload bonus the larger bonus is generally worth more than any amount of rakeback. Bonuses are also generally better for small stakes players than rakeback deals because they typically pay more.
Obviously this forum is owned by a poker affiliate, and the forum rules and common sense limit which deals I can include. Fortunately, MJ has the best deals money-wise in virtually every case anyway.
Limit Texas Hold'em 101 - $0
If you don't already have an account at Party Poker then take advantage of the instant bankroll offer when creating one. Take the $75 to the beginner tables and play the 500 raked hands required for the other $25.
Micro-limit Poker 101 - $50
Large poker bonuses require both a big enough deposit to get the full match value and a big enough bankroll to play at stakes high enough to clear them in a reasonable amount of time. Because of that it's often better to wait on bonuses and build up your bankroll in micro-limit games.
Micro-limit games are also useful for learning a new game. Before risking large portions of your roll in a new game, it makes sense to test the waters a bit.
The best place to build a bankroll is Poker Stars [LINK] which has very soft unraked .05/.10 Limit Hold'em games. Very few bonuses return more than you pay in rake anyway, so this is a great deal. Better yet, you don't forfeit any sign-up bonus because they rarely offer one, and when they do the bonuses never expire. Plus you'll be ready when you want to try the forum Catch the Monkey tournament series.
The best place to try new games is probably Ultimate Bet. [LINK] Because each raked hand gives a minimum of .1 points to each player you're effectively earning $3 of bonus for each $1 of rake at the lowest limits. The downside is that you'll spend all eternity clearing a bonus at those stakes, though they never expire. That makes this best for established players transitioning to new games, or new players with very limited play time.
Ultimate Bet only deducts a portion of the bonus from revenue, so you can still earn rakeback or PSO points at the same time.
Five Card Draw 101 - $150
Make a deposit at casino.net's poker room and play some Five Card Draw. You'll need to make voluntary contributions to 500 pots of any game/limit to get $100 free. You can play that off quickly in the .25/.50 draw games using just the basic strategy.
Pay attention to the table list, 7-A Five Card Draw is a different game!
You could also clear this fairly easily peddling the nuts in the tiny no-limit cash games (.05/.10) though it would take longer. It's rather unlikely you could play a premium hand 500 times and not come out ahead.
Limit Texas Hold'em 102 - $150
Once you have $150 to work with, you'll want to pick one of the cryptologic skins, probably either Sun Poker or Interpoker. This network has very loose .25/.50 games to get to your $300 target in, despite the bonuses being somewhat tough to clear at low limits. Sun Poker is the more interesting of the two, because the monthly and sign-up bonuses clear concurrently, and it has more sign-up options. You can either get an extra $100 bonus, rakeback through MJ, or a copy of Poker Tracker or Amazon gift card (free poker book!) through the PSO banner. They do subtract your bonuses from your rakeback payment, so the cash is the best deal if you only plan on playing there during the monthly bonus.
Interpoker is interesting because their bonus doesn't expire for 90 days. If you don't have the time to play a couple of hours per day every month you can make a couple smaller deposits at Interpoker over the course of a couple months and clear the match bonuses at your own pace. If you're able to combine that with a rakeback offer it should be a nice boost to your winrate.
In all of these games, key concepts to pick up are drawing hands in community pots, including when to raise draws, and the play of premium hands. Do not use the softness of the game as an excuse to see flops with trash.
Seven Card Stud 101 - $200
Deposit $200 at Paradise Poker using the TGHT bonus code for a $100 match. You'll be playing the .50/1 Seven Card Stud games (High only, NO high/low), so get familiar with the game first. The section in the original Super System isn't bad, but needs some modification here. See the forums for other book recommendations.
This game is peculiar because it lacks an ante. In stud, lower antes favor the tight player, and zero is as low as you can get. Here you want to play only the premium hands, TT-AA, rolled up trips, and suited connectors (456s, etc), good drawing hands in position with the right odds, and pairs over the remaining door cards when you're first in in the back.
You can generally play the style from Super System except that you should normally consider any raise on third street to be the same as a double raised pot. Without antes to steal a strong player isn't going to raise without the hand he's representing, and a weak player never will. Be carefull with concealed pairs too, as generally the players here aren't good enough to fold to your aces up with only the small pair showing, no matter how strongly you lead at it.
Concentrate on starting hand selection and hand reading. The bonus covers alot of bring ins at this level, so this is some of the cheapest stud experience you can get anywhere.
Graduate when the bonus clears and withdraw to neteller.
Limit Texas Hold'em 103 - $500
For this lesson you'll be playing .5/1 six max texas holdem while clearing the sign up bonuses at Empire Poker and Party Poker. Be sure to use the free Poker Tracker offer if you haven't already, you can get a copy of PTO for later. To get the maximum match you'll need to deposit $500 at each. If you don't have that much it isn't a disaster.
For starters, the two max bonuses total $250, but you hopefully have some winnings so far that might offset a smaller match. On top of that you can always play at Sun Poker getting the $40 monthly until you've got $500 to deposit. In fact, you can try the .35/.70 six max game there or the .5/1 six max if it looks good at the time (it's usually awful, as are the full tables at that limit) and work on shorthanded play while clearing the monthly bonus at a faster rate. Finally, you may get a reload offer from Empire if you've already opened an account there for the free version of Poker Tracker.
In the loose six max games you want to alter your starting hand requirements a bit. Broadways (AKQJT) both suited and unsuited are much more valuable at a short table. While you wouldn't be far wrong never playing KJo at the full tables you've been at so far it would be a mistake to dump it here. Suited connectors, on the other hand, are near worthless. You wouldn't be far wrong discarding any below T9s.
Another class if hands that goes up in value in late position are hands with showdown value. Typically big-little combinations that would be suicide at a full table. A9o on the button, for example, may win out with top pair, high card, or outkicking a garbage nine. Don't use that as an excuse to play marginal hands behind raises, or complete trash like K3o, but do cautiously play big-little suited aces and kings when it makes sense.
The 1/2 games generally have people who try harder, but are still awful. They're also the fastest way to clear bonuses playing hold'em at these sites so game quality can fluctuate wildly during promotions. That being said, if you do hit $600 you can definately take a shot.
Graduate after both bonuses.
Seven Card Stud 102 - $600
Open a USD dollar account at William Hill and deposit some spreading around money. It's critical that you select the same wager currency as your neteller account during the sign up process. If neteller has to convert your transactions you pay a huge 1.9% spread.
William Hill will award you 5 GBP in bonus chips for every hour played at fixed limits 1/2 and higher for the first five hours in any given month, so you need to play five hours of Stud 1/2. This can be a crazy game on the weekends and during peak hours so be prepared for some swings. Your edge over worse hands is also much smaller without community cards, so suckouts aren't uncommon. I finished 34 bets in the red after the first five hours which the bonus smoothed out to -10 overall. So you'll probably want to gear down with a good book, and don't be surprised if it takes a number of months to get an accurate idea of where you are.
This is worth repeating monthly. That's a very nice bonus at those limits, and being hourly based it's tailor made for NL tables when you begin to play those.
This work in progress is a supplement to the bonus guide, designed to help you use bonuses and promotions to turn yourself into a solid poker player. It is not a get rich quick scheme, there are faster ways to clear bonuses. Rather, this guide lets you clear them most efficiently, so that your game and bankroll increase at a similar pace.
Each course has a number and dollar amount. The dollar amount is the suggested minimum bankroll to attempt that bonus. The course numbers are the suggested stakes to play at, 100 level courses are nano/micro-limit games, 200 small stakes, etc.
Freshman Orientation
Before moving on to actual playing you should have a fundamental understanding of poker, particuarly Texas Hold'em. In particular you should know the rank of hands and understand the concept of pot odds. You'll also want to eventually invest in tools to help you improve.
The first thing you'll want, even before books, is a copy of Poker Tracker. Without tracking your play, you'll have no idea if you're winning, or which areas need improvement. Start with the Hold'em version, and eventually grab the Omaha and Stud ones when you start playing those games.
The second thing you'll want is a poker library. When you're starting out, a good book is much cheaper than learning the hard way. The leaders in poker publishing are Cardoza and 2+2, which are engaged in sort of a cold war. Typically, fans of one will tell you books by the other stink. The truth is somewhat more complicated. All poker books suck rocks, and both publishers have a couple nice titles. My personal suggestions are:
Super System - Good introduction to Texas Hold'em and the best for Seven Card Stud.
Super System 2 - Best for Triple Draw and Omaha, very good for mid-limit Hold'em, and passably ok for Seven Card Stud High/Low. Very good combined with the original.
Mike Caro University of Poker - Obviously not a book, but home of several though provoking past articles from various magazines.
Other noteworthy books:
Winning Low-Limit Hold'em - Sort of sucks, but is cheap. And honestly, the defensive style of play it preaches isn't really bad for the novice player. Think of it as a book that will prevent big losses, but also limit your big wins.
Small Stakes Hold'em - Some people swear by it, I was unimpressed. Of course, I'm not the target audience for the book. It may have made a lasting impression if I'd learned anything by reading it.
You may eventually want a copy of Stat King which will simplify tracking your wins across games and locations, especially if you play both online and live.
Finally, you'll need a Neteller account with at least $50 in it.
Personal Finance 101
Virtually everyone underestimates how much money you need to play poker. If you make it a rule to play within your bankroll you'll already have a leg up on the competition. The following guidelines are relatively safe while building your bankroll:
a. 300 times the upper limit for fixed limit games, and drop down if you fall below 200.
b. 15 maximum buy-ins for variable limit games, and drop down if you fall below 10.
c. 25 STT buy-ins, and drop down if you fall below 15.
Remember, the smaller your bankroll compared to the stakes, the more likely you'll go broke. You should also bear in mind that taking money out of your bankroll significantly increases the risk of going broke. Should you stop letting your winnings add to your roll, you'll need a much larger one than suggested above.
Many people seem oblivious to a simple truth; the larger your bankroll is, the more important it is to protect it. The value of your bankroll is simple to measure, it's money! Obviously busting a $50 bankroll sucks, but not nearly as much as busting a $50,000 one. If you're fortunate enough to move to high stakes poker, leave yourself some extra cushion to absorb swings.
As you move through the guide, you'll see that each course has a dollar range next to it. The lower end is what you need to safely attempt it, and the upper end is what you'll need to move on to later ones.
Poker Affiliates 101
A poker affiliate is someone who gets compensated by poker sites for signing up new members. Affiliates, in turn, attract players by offering free gifts, special bonuses, or returning a portion of their compensation to you (rake back). You should do a bit of research first then, and pick the best deal for you.
The best deal isn't always the most valuable. For example, taking a $30 book rather than a $50 cash bonus is obviously a bad deal. That is, unless you have limited funds and can't spare the $30 for the book. In that case your choices may be a $50 bonus you'll lose money clearing, or a free book which will help you win hundreds of dollars. That book's looking a lot better.
Rakeback can be equally tricky, because most sites deduct any bonuses earned from your rakeback payments. So, if you're only going to play a site once, or whenever they offer a reload bonus the larger bonus is generally worth more than any amount of rakeback. Bonuses are also generally better for small stakes players than rakeback deals because they typically pay more.
Obviously this forum is owned by a poker affiliate, and the forum rules and common sense limit which deals I can include. Fortunately, MJ has the best deals money-wise in virtually every case anyway.
Limit Texas Hold'em 101 - $0
If you don't already have an account at Party Poker then take advantage of the instant bankroll offer when creating one. Take the $75 to the beginner tables and play the 500 raked hands required for the other $25.
Micro-limit Poker 101 - $50
Large poker bonuses require both a big enough deposit to get the full match value and a big enough bankroll to play at stakes high enough to clear them in a reasonable amount of time. Because of that it's often better to wait on bonuses and build up your bankroll in micro-limit games.
Micro-limit games are also useful for learning a new game. Before risking large portions of your roll in a new game, it makes sense to test the waters a bit.
The best place to build a bankroll is Poker Stars [LINK] which has very soft unraked .05/.10 Limit Hold'em games. Very few bonuses return more than you pay in rake anyway, so this is a great deal. Better yet, you don't forfeit any sign-up bonus because they rarely offer one, and when they do the bonuses never expire. Plus you'll be ready when you want to try the forum Catch the Monkey tournament series.
The best place to try new games is probably Ultimate Bet. [LINK] Because each raked hand gives a minimum of .1 points to each player you're effectively earning $3 of bonus for each $1 of rake at the lowest limits. The downside is that you'll spend all eternity clearing a bonus at those stakes, though they never expire. That makes this best for established players transitioning to new games, or new players with very limited play time.
Ultimate Bet only deducts a portion of the bonus from revenue, so you can still earn rakeback or PSO points at the same time.
Five Card Draw 101 - $150
Make a deposit at casino.net's poker room and play some Five Card Draw. You'll need to make voluntary contributions to 500 pots of any game/limit to get $100 free. You can play that off quickly in the .25/.50 draw games using just the basic strategy.
Pay attention to the table list, 7-A Five Card Draw is a different game!
You could also clear this fairly easily peddling the nuts in the tiny no-limit cash games (.05/.10) though it would take longer. It's rather unlikely you could play a premium hand 500 times and not come out ahead.
Limit Texas Hold'em 102 - $150
Once you have $150 to work with, you'll want to pick one of the cryptologic skins, probably either Sun Poker or Interpoker. This network has very loose .25/.50 games to get to your $300 target in, despite the bonuses being somewhat tough to clear at low limits. Sun Poker is the more interesting of the two, because the monthly and sign-up bonuses clear concurrently, and it has more sign-up options. You can either get an extra $100 bonus, rakeback through MJ, or a copy of Poker Tracker or Amazon gift card (free poker book!) through the PSO banner. They do subtract your bonuses from your rakeback payment, so the cash is the best deal if you only plan on playing there during the monthly bonus.
Interpoker is interesting because their bonus doesn't expire for 90 days. If you don't have the time to play a couple of hours per day every month you can make a couple smaller deposits at Interpoker over the course of a couple months and clear the match bonuses at your own pace. If you're able to combine that with a rakeback offer it should be a nice boost to your winrate.
In all of these games, key concepts to pick up are drawing hands in community pots, including when to raise draws, and the play of premium hands. Do not use the softness of the game as an excuse to see flops with trash.
Seven Card Stud 101 - $200
Deposit $200 at Paradise Poker using the TGHT bonus code for a $100 match. You'll be playing the .50/1 Seven Card Stud games (High only, NO high/low), so get familiar with the game first. The section in the original Super System isn't bad, but needs some modification here. See the forums for other book recommendations.
This game is peculiar because it lacks an ante. In stud, lower antes favor the tight player, and zero is as low as you can get. Here you want to play only the premium hands, TT-AA, rolled up trips, and suited connectors (456s, etc), good drawing hands in position with the right odds, and pairs over the remaining door cards when you're first in in the back.
You can generally play the style from Super System except that you should normally consider any raise on third street to be the same as a double raised pot. Without antes to steal a strong player isn't going to raise without the hand he's representing, and a weak player never will. Be carefull with concealed pairs too, as generally the players here aren't good enough to fold to your aces up with only the small pair showing, no matter how strongly you lead at it.
Concentrate on starting hand selection and hand reading. The bonus covers alot of bring ins at this level, so this is some of the cheapest stud experience you can get anywhere.
Graduate when the bonus clears and withdraw to neteller.
Limit Texas Hold'em 103 - $500
For this lesson you'll be playing .5/1 six max texas holdem while clearing the sign up bonuses at Empire Poker and Party Poker. Be sure to use the free Poker Tracker offer if you haven't already, you can get a copy of PTO for later. To get the maximum match you'll need to deposit $500 at each. If you don't have that much it isn't a disaster.
For starters, the two max bonuses total $250, but you hopefully have some winnings so far that might offset a smaller match. On top of that you can always play at Sun Poker getting the $40 monthly until you've got $500 to deposit. In fact, you can try the .35/.70 six max game there or the .5/1 six max if it looks good at the time (it's usually awful, as are the full tables at that limit) and work on shorthanded play while clearing the monthly bonus at a faster rate. Finally, you may get a reload offer from Empire if you've already opened an account there for the free version of Poker Tracker.
In the loose six max games you want to alter your starting hand requirements a bit. Broadways (AKQJT) both suited and unsuited are much more valuable at a short table. While you wouldn't be far wrong never playing KJo at the full tables you've been at so far it would be a mistake to dump it here. Suited connectors, on the other hand, are near worthless. You wouldn't be far wrong discarding any below T9s.
Another class if hands that goes up in value in late position are hands with showdown value. Typically big-little combinations that would be suicide at a full table. A9o on the button, for example, may win out with top pair, high card, or outkicking a garbage nine. Don't use that as an excuse to play marginal hands behind raises, or complete trash like K3o, but do cautiously play big-little suited aces and kings when it makes sense.
The 1/2 games generally have people who try harder, but are still awful. They're also the fastest way to clear bonuses playing hold'em at these sites so game quality can fluctuate wildly during promotions. That being said, if you do hit $600 you can definately take a shot.
Graduate after both bonuses.
Seven Card Stud 102 - $600
Open a USD dollar account at William Hill and deposit some spreading around money. It's critical that you select the same wager currency as your neteller account during the sign up process. If neteller has to convert your transactions you pay a huge 1.9% spread.
William Hill will award you 5 GBP in bonus chips for every hour played at fixed limits 1/2 and higher for the first five hours in any given month, so you need to play five hours of Stud 1/2. This can be a crazy game on the weekends and during peak hours so be prepared for some swings. Your edge over worse hands is also much smaller without community cards, so suckouts aren't uncommon. I finished 34 bets in the red after the first five hours which the bonus smoothed out to -10 overall. So you'll probably want to gear down with a good book, and don't be surprised if it takes a number of months to get an accurate idea of where you are.
This is worth repeating monthly. That's a very nice bonus at those limits, and being hourly based it's tailor made for NL tables when you begin to play those.
Last edited by caffiend on Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:36 am, edited 17 times in total.
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caffiend - Whale Hunter
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:02 am
by caffiend » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:21 pm
Actually, to be most useful to beginners it probably needs some updates later on what different people have for winrates in the mentioned games and a bit more meat in the recommended reading department.
I deliberately excluded winrates in the original, because people can get carried away comparing themselves to people that are slaughtering the game. On the other hand, the goal is to point people to very soft tables in general, so it would be helpful to know if they've turned into rock gardens.
As far as books go, I don't have a high opinion of most of the popular ones. But they have helped alot of people so I try and avoid flaming them and just keep my mouth shut. More than a little of that is likely personal preference too, as poker books are not very well edited as a general rule. (Except for Super System, which I doubt was edited at all with that grammar.) In any case it would be helpful to know if people find a particular book to go well with a given game.
Honestly, I'm not too sure I like the time investment required in some steps, either. If you single table, you're probably looking at a solid month or more for each one so far. I think anyone who goes through it without deviation will feel the grind at some point.
I deliberately excluded winrates in the original, because people can get carried away comparing themselves to people that are slaughtering the game. On the other hand, the goal is to point people to very soft tables in general, so it would be helpful to know if they've turned into rock gardens.
As far as books go, I don't have a high opinion of most of the popular ones. But they have helped alot of people so I try and avoid flaming them and just keep my mouth shut. More than a little of that is likely personal preference too, as poker books are not very well edited as a general rule. (Except for Super System, which I doubt was edited at all with that grammar.) In any case it would be helpful to know if people find a particular book to go well with a given game.
Honestly, I'm not too sure I like the time investment required in some steps, either. If you single table, you're probably looking at a solid month or more for each one so far. I think anyone who goes through it without deviation will feel the grind at some point.
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caffiend - Whale Hunter
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:02 am
fiendish stats
by caffiend » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:27 am
cv indicates the coefficient of variation which is your win rate divided by your standard deviation. In other words, the ratio winnings to swings in a given game. In other words, the higher the cv the softer the game.
These are provided only to give you a numerical idea of how easy to beat the games in the U are for me. Your numbers will be different, and many of these are over short time periods. You should only use them as the roughest guide to what to expect. For example, if the cv for your current game is .20 and the next on the list is .10 you can expect it to be twice as hard to beat. (Or, if it's a different game entirely, you can conclude that I really suck at it.)
Site, Game, Table Hrs, C.V.
Sun, .25/.50, 61:24, 0.42
Empire, .5/1 6 max, 10:45, 0.50
Empire, 1/2 6 max, 5:40, 0.50
William Hill, 1/2 7 card stud, 5:00, -0.38 *Only spans a few hours, don't panic
These are provided only to give you a numerical idea of how easy to beat the games in the U are for me. Your numbers will be different, and many of these are over short time periods. You should only use them as the roughest guide to what to expect. For example, if the cv for your current game is .20 and the next on the list is .10 you can expect it to be twice as hard to beat. (Or, if it's a different game entirely, you can conclude that I really suck at it.)
Site, Game, Table Hrs, C.V.
Sun, .25/.50, 61:24, 0.42
Empire, .5/1 6 max, 10:45, 0.50
Empire, 1/2 6 max, 5:40, 0.50
William Hill, 1/2 7 card stud, 5:00, -0.38 *Only spans a few hours, don't panic
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caffiend - Whale Hunter
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:02 am
by caffiend » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:26 am
guitarizt wrote:This is an awesome post. Do you mind if I link to it in other forums and emails?
Well, you'd really only need to ask before copying it, not just linking to it. If you're asking what my opinion on doing that is I can't see any reason why you shouldn't in emails, but you might want to use common sense on other forums. I mean, there's a fine line between exchanging information and spam. So essentially the answer is no, I don't mind.
There may be places MJ doesn't want traffic from, so if he's asked you not to link to this forum from assmonkeys.com or whatever, I'd avoid that.
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caffiend - Whale Hunter
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:02 am
by caffiend » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:52 pm
More edits. I've given up on a progression based soley on bonus amounts, it's too hard. People will either need to run good or remain in good games until they've got the roll to hit bigger bonuses.
Also, given that the last two I attempted made me want to shoot myself I've decided to order them by general ease of clearing and expiration periods not just hourly rate. That means that some rooms won't show up until the upper small stakes or high stakes games.
Also, given that the last two I attempted made me want to shoot myself I've decided to order them by general ease of clearing and expiration periods not just hourly rate. That means that some rooms won't show up until the upper small stakes or high stakes games.
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caffiend - Whale Hunter
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:02 am
False Starts
by caffiend » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:13 pm
The primary reason for slow updates is that I always stick to one table, and occasionally have to slog through a bonus I wouldn't recommend. Here then, are the current false starts:
Nine.com, which has a very nice deposit and monthly bonus along with automated rakeback from affiliates. (The software's clunky as hell though) Unfortunatly, it's contributed rake and there are very few games there. I had originally intended to clear it playing Chinese Poker or another ante game, only to find they have none running reguarly. On the bright side, they had one of the best 1/2 hold'em games ever and what looks like a nice 5/10 one. I'll get back to it later.
Pokerroom, which is hideous to clear below 2/4. I finished it, but I'm leaving it off the list until at least 3/6. Given the rake structure there I would suspect Omaha games to be the best ones, but they only run sporadically, and play slow as hell. This one's off the list until high stakes something or other.
Doyle's Room, which isn't bad. I had to sign up earlier than I'd planned because the network imposed a cutoff date for new accounts to get rakeback. Now I'm working off the $550 bonus at slightly smaller stakes than I'd planned. However it's reasonably fast and never expires.
Casino.net, has a very nice bonus based on contributed raked hands. (That's the cardroom there, not the casino which is based on wagers) If they spread the same draw games as other Boss Media sites it should be great. But evaluating that's on hold for now.
Nine.com, which has a very nice deposit and monthly bonus along with automated rakeback from affiliates. (The software's clunky as hell though) Unfortunatly, it's contributed rake and there are very few games there. I had originally intended to clear it playing Chinese Poker or another ante game, only to find they have none running reguarly. On the bright side, they had one of the best 1/2 hold'em games ever and what looks like a nice 5/10 one. I'll get back to it later.
Pokerroom, which is hideous to clear below 2/4. I finished it, but I'm leaving it off the list until at least 3/6. Given the rake structure there I would suspect Omaha games to be the best ones, but they only run sporadically, and play slow as hell. This one's off the list until high stakes something or other.
Doyle's Room, which isn't bad. I had to sign up earlier than I'd planned because the network imposed a cutoff date for new accounts to get rakeback. Now I'm working off the $550 bonus at slightly smaller stakes than I'd planned. However it's reasonably fast and never expires.
Casino.net, has a very nice bonus based on contributed raked hands. (That's the cardroom there, not the casino which is based on wagers) If they spread the same draw games as other Boss Media sites it should be great. But evaluating that's on hold for now.
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caffiend - Whale Hunter
- Posts: 1385
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:02 am
by stewart » Sun May 14, 2006 7:38 pm
Spot on regarding Sun Poker, I'm currently building a bank roll there after depositing $100 and have more than doubled it, mostly through bonuses, $50 sign up plus $40 monthly bounus, Very close to clearing second monthly $40 playing initialy .25/.50 ring games and now .35/.70 6 max. The games are fairly soft and bonus easy to clear, just a comment on the 6 max game in general I have experienced, although soft, the tables often play fast and loose which makes high variance something you should expect. The bonus helps pad your roll and keep your long term variance lower, a solid sense of dicipline will help. Poor play by opponents will often hurt you at the river as often as reward you so tilt can damage you badly if not kept under control. If Mr aggro or the calling station won't stay in the pot to the river you'll make less money over time so a bad beat every now and then is a good thing just don't start doing what they do. A common site is players just playing to loose in short handed games because the blinds come round more often they feel compelled to play way more pots than they should, let your opponets juice it for you when you get a hand.
- stewart
- Fish
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:00 pm
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