I'm weak/tight, right?

[happycamper374]

PokerStars Game #3165283731: Tournament #15558977, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/11/26 - 16:19:06 (ET)
Table '15558977 2' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: mervhage (2030 in chips)
Seat 2: elleron (3195 in chips)
Seat 6: Eruu (1040 in chips)
Seat 7: fishinghooks (1480 in chips)
Seat 8: Phaedrus374 (1290 in chips)
Seat 9: pngn (1465 in chips)
Phaedrus374: posts small blind 15
pngn: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phaedrus374 [Ts As]
mervhage: folds
elleron: folds
Eruu: folds
fishinghooks: raises 60 to 90
elleron said, "Are you a scientist?"
Phaedrus374: calls 75
pngn: folds
*** FLOP *** [7d Kc Ad]
mervhage said, "i am"
Phaedrus374: checks
fishinghooks: bets 130
Phaedrus374: calls 130
*** TURN *** [7d Kc Ad] [Ah]
mervhage said, "lol"
Phaedrus374: bets 300
fishinghooks: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [7d Kc Ad Ah] [2c]
Phaedrus374: checks
elleron said, "He was the fugitive."
fishinghooks: bets 960 and is all-in
Phaedrus374 said, "well ****"
mervhage said, "no, that's different"
mervhage said, "hi"
Phaedrus374: folds
fishinghooks collected 1070 from pot
fishinghooks: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1070 | Rake 0
Board [7d Kc Ad Ah 2c]
Seat 1: mervhage folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: elleron folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Eruu folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: fishinghooks (button) collected (1070)
Seat 8: Phaedrus374 (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 9: pngn (big blind) folded before Flop


For those who werent there, the table was tight as a rock, so i figured raising standards in LP and calling standards in blinds were lowered. However, i guess if im gonna play AT i should probably go broke with it.

[bobcorn]

I'd probably fold that on the river too. I dont see what hand he could have that doesnt have you beat. I might have check-raised on the turn to let him make the mistake of betting with a King because he's not calling your turn bet with many hands you can beat. Also, i think your preflop call is fine.

[happycamper374]

Fuck me. After thinking about this, I'm truly a dumb ass. Please make fun of me.

[happycamper374]

Bobcorn, I posted before I saw your respnse. I'm just back and forth about this. At first I thought i was a genius, then an idiot, now i dont know. We'll just have to ask scotty if it was the right move.

[faquewdikhed]

If ur gonna play that hand and hit a pretty good flop, raise the flop and find out where u stand. AT is usually too weak a hand to take to showdown.

Your opponent (in general, not just this one) will tell u what he has, you just have to ask.

If he calls your raise, u might get a free river, and perhaps be able to call a small river bet, or even throw out a blocking bet on the river. If he reraises you, your hand is beat; fold it. If he folds, you win.

You have to give him a chance to fold.

[scotty1139]

I'm not posting the result yet because I don't want to make it easy for the Monday Morning Quarterbacks among us. Keep talking it out. I'll eventually reveal what I had.

What kind of player have I been in past tourneys?
What kind of player was I in this tourney?
What hands have I shown down?
What hand range am I jamming? Checkraising? Checkfolding?
What information does my betting reveal?

[mattaca]

I agree with faq. I think if you're playing this then you should raise the flop to find out where you stand. I would raise it an amount that you might think he would fold. If he calls or re-raises you can probably let this go.

Tough laydown on the river, but I like to ask the question, "can I fold here and get myself in a better position later on?" I find this makes making those tough laydowns a bit easier.

As for what Scotty had???? hmmmmm....... tough call. I don't think AK or KK. If I had to guess I would say pocket 7's. He just seemed confident in his betting and with your call on the turn he has to know you have an A. He could have also been playing A2o and was on a steal. Either way, he has you beat. I doubt he'd put his tourney on he line with an allin bluff on the river.

I am probably completely wrong though.

[scotty1139]

Does this decision become less tough if he has AQ? How about AJ? Would I have played this hand the same way if I had those hands, or A6-A2, or AK?

[bobcorn]

I agree with mattaca but i think you can also add A7 and maybe even AJ-AQ to scotty's range. His cold call on the turn has to send up warning signals because he's putting 1/4 of his stack on the line.

[kbar13]

I like coming out firing on the flop. If you get re-raised, call and see the turn. I also like betting the turn in this situation. If re-raised again, I could fold there or call and check-call the river. I like being the aggressor and don't like check-calling all the way. Without being aggressive at any point in the hand, it is very difficult to get an accurate read on your opponent. Given the way you played it, I think you have to fold the river as the bet because you really don't have any information on what he might have.

I just want to add a hand that I think is not being considered and I dont know why. What about KQ, especially KdQd.? I definently play the hand out this way with this hand. You hit a K and continue with your pre-flop aggression. The ace one the turn is actually a good card with this holding considering his smooth call which probably indicates a draw. The second ace would also make me consider my kings good at this point so bet again. Another smooth call indicates to me a draw. The only thing that would discredit KQ would be the river all-in. You can only call the all-in with more hands that beat you than not and you get no information with your opponent folding. So checking with KQ would be best. Any thoughts on this type of play?

[scotty1139]

I just want to add a hand that I think is not being considered and I dont know why. What about KQ, especially KdQd.? ..... The only thing that would discredit KQ would be the river all-in. You can only call the all-in with more hands that beat you than not and you get no information with your opponent folding. So checking with KQ would be best. Any thoughts on this type of play?

You guys are getting warmer. My play on the river makes it highly unlikely that I have KQ, unless I'm playing absolutely irrational, or I've pegged you as incredibly weak tight. I'm apt to be raising many of my draws. Does the pairing of the turn force me to call rather than raise a KdQd draw?

My next reply will have my discussion about what I had and why I played it the way I did.

[faquewdikhed]

I hope nobody read the response that was previously posted here cuz I read the hand wrong. OOPS

But reading it again i think it's AK or A7

[happycamper374]

OK I was gone all weekend so now I get to the discussion.

what I was thinking during the hand:

A steal, then a continuation bet, then an attack by me, then a "I hope we check it down," then a "damnit!"

I think the raising range is weak, 22+ up to med suited connectors.

I think scotty puts me on a quality hand, except my check on the flop perhaps showed weakness. My call must have shown strength, and then his call of my turn bet makes me think he has an ace. I messed up by not betting the river, which was a sign of weakness. Then he puts the decision to me and I dont want to call and knock myself out of the tournament. I think I could have bet the river to encourage a call, but stave off a large bet. At the time, I put him on a bigger ace. In retrospect, I dont know.

[happycamper374]

More thought. I think that if he had flopped a power house like 2 pair he maybe would have checked. Although he could have hoped that an Ace or king cold have helped me.


Behold, the power of position!

This is a great discussion.

If i had had AJ I would have called. I thought that the possibility that he had me beat was worth a fold to keep me in the hunt for 1st. However, I can put scotty on cards all the way down to A2. So that means I lose A-K, Q, J, 7, 2, and win 9 through 3 minus A7. I split AT. So I lose five times and win six times.

I didnt raise on the flop because i really thought i was ahead and was going to take it down with a bet on the turn.

[faquewdikhed]

I didnt raise on the flop because i really thought i was ahead and was going to take it down with a bet on the turn.

Put money in while you are ahead.