Please help a Beginner Limit player
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Please help a Beginner Limit player
by beezee » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:59 pm
Topic: Please help a Beginner Limit player (Read 434 times)
scottie_g.
Please help a Beginner Limit player
« on: May 27th, 2005, 7:38pm »
Now, I am not new to poker... I have been playing for about 2 years, read a variety of books, and have played a number of SNG games and NL and PL cash games.
In all this time, my experience with Limit poker is slim to none. I like variety, so I decided to try playing the 1/2 Limit games to whore instead of the $50 PL or NL games. I played about 400 hands (some .5/1 also), and stopped because my bankroll seemed to be steadily decreasing.
My BB/100 for about 400 hands was -4.1 BB/100
Any advice for someone who is accustumed to playing No Limit? I'm getting killed at the Limit tables!!!
Bob
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #1 on: May 27th, 2005, 7:53pm »
Limit games will deal you a lot more bad beats because it is less expensive to stay in until the river. You need to be able read your opponents and throw away good hands.
For example, if I have top pair + top kicker, and somebody keeps checking and calling - it tells me he has second pair, or is on a draw. If on the river, he comes out gunning after checking and betting the whole way, then chances are the river card made him a better hand. Perhaps 2 pair, perhaps the gutshot draw that he was not getting the odds to draw to. Be ready to throw away hands that can be beaten, especially if a person who has checked and called all of a sudden comes out betting &/or raising.
The biggest thing is knowing when you are beat and laying down the hand. Sometimes it is tough when you have AA and the top card on the board is a T.
You have to get to the 5/10 level before people will not usually until the river just to see if they can hit their miracle 2 outter. It can be frustrating, but I have made quite a bit of money at limit tables.
-Bob
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #2 on: May 27th, 2005, 8:53pm »
Check-raises are almost never bluffs at low limits.
MJ
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #3 on: May 27th, 2005, 10:03pm »
-4BB/hr... I'm thinking play less hands. Don't draw so much. Don't play speculative hands.
Shun
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #4 on: May 28th, 2005, 9:50am »
400 hands, -4BB/100 is easy to come by. You need a lot of hands to have real meaningful statistics in limit. I'm sure I could find a run of 400 hands myself where I've maybe done worse than that.
633 hands, month of January, at $1/2 and £1/2 -1.96bb/hr and -4.54BB/100. I put money in in 19.59% of my hands (that's fine tight enough). So it can happen to good players too.
As long as your stats are within normal means for tightness/PF aggression/etc, you're probably not doing too bad. If your VP$IP in PokerTracker is between 15-25%. I'd consider that good for now. Be raising around 5% pre-flop, that's good too or so. As long as you're following the advice in limit books, you're probably good.
People complain about getting drawn out on in limit, but I think the most fun I have in limit is calling getting 10:1 on my measly 4.1:1 to complete on the turn flush draw and hitting it. Or value-raising my flush draw when 3 people have already called on the flop and I get my free card on the turn.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #5 on: May 28th, 2005, 10:52am »
Let me know if my thinking is correct:
In limit poker, you find yourself having pot odds to call a bet much more often than in No Limit games. For example, you are more likely to draw on an open ended straigt draw or a flush draw.
I think one of the most important things in Limit poker is making sure that YOU are drawing to the best hand. In other words, don't call a bet just because you have the correct pot odds to hit your straight or flush. God knows, there are probably 4 other people drawing to the same thing, or maybe even a full house.
I think it is almost more important to have the BEST drawing hand rather than the BEST starting hand.
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2005, 10:52am by scottie_g. »
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #6 on: May 28th, 2005, 10:56am »
One thing I may be doing wrong is being too aggressive at the $1/2 games. My PF raise is about 7.4% and my PF aggression is at 2.5.
I like to bet flush draws and stuff like that... maybe too often.
This probably comes from my NL experience where I would often rather raise or fold than call.
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #7 on: May 28th, 2005, 11:06am »
What is your VPip?
Betting draws is fine. One thing that's different between NL and limits is that you can't bet people out of the pot. You can forget about bluffing at low limits. Your draw bets are for value.
Are you staying with hands too long? Implied odds in limit are greatly diminished.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #8 on: May 28th, 2005, 12:46pm »
Vol. Put $ in the pot = 18%
Yea, bluffing in limit games isn't really much of an option until you are up at $5/10 maybe.. where the bet of $10 on the flop is actually worth something Smiley
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #10 on: May 29th, 2005, 11:11am »
I am haasie100 here.
***** Hand History for Game 2115941446 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Friday, May 27, 21:55:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 41418 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: mike070781 ( $44 )
Seat 3: kaylerf ( $46.08 )
Seat 5: CodyBowl ( $32.45 )
Seat 6: RoadKing_99 ( $33.9 )
Seat 7: djebugman ( $34.75 )
Seat 8: haasie100 ( $54.5 )
Seat 1: reklesskelly ( $42.75 )
Seat 9: Hobojoe918 ( $83.25 )
haasie100 posts small blind [$0.5].
Hobojoe918 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to haasie100 [ Tc Ts ]
reklesskelly calls [$1].
mike070781 calls [$1].
ecomx has joined the table.
kaylerf folds.
CodyBowl folds.
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman calls [$1].
haasie100 raises [$1.5].
Hobojoe918 calls [$1].
reklesskelly calls [$1].
mike070781 calls [$1].
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2d, 7c, 4c ]
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
haasie100 bets [$1].
Hobojoe918 folds.
reklesskelly calls [$1].
mike070781 calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
haasie100 bets [$2].
reklesskelly calls [$2].
mike070781 raises [$4].
RoadKing_99 folds.
djebugman folds.
haasie100 calls [$2].
reklesskelly calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ Qh ]
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
haasie100 checks.
reklesskelly checks.
mike070781 bets [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
reklesskelly calls [$2].
mike070781 shows [ 7s, 8s ] two pairs, eights and sevens.
haasie100 doesn't show [ Tc, Ts ] a pair of tens.
reklesskelly doesn't show [ 3c, Qc ] a pair of queens.
mike070781 wins $34 from the main pot with two pairs, eights and sevens.
***** Hand History for Game 2115908107 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Friday, May 27, 21:48:28 EDT 2005
Table Table 41418 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: mike070781 ( $35.5 )
Seat 3: kaylerf ( $40.83 )
Seat 4: JAMPULLER ( $59.75 )
Seat 5: CodyBowl ( $33.7 )
Seat 6: RoadKing_99 ( $47.9 )
Seat 7: djebugman ( $32.25 )
Seat 8: haasie100 ( $63.5 )
Seat 1: reklesskelly ( $44.25 )
Seat 9: Hobojoe918 ( $76.75 )
Hobojoe918 posts small blind [$0.5].
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
reklesskelly posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to haasie100 [ Kh Kc ]
mike070781 folds.
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
kaylerf folds.
JAMPULLER folds.
CodyBowl calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
>You have options at Table 32468 Table!.
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman folds.
haasie100 raises [$2].
Hobojoe918 folds.
reklesskelly folds.
CodyBowl calls [$1].
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, 8s, 5h ]
CodyBowl bets [$1].
RoadKing_99 folds.
haasie100 raises [$2].
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
CodyBowl calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
CodyBowl bets [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ Ts ]
CodyBowl bets [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
CodyBowl shows [ 5s, As ] two pairs, aces and fives.
haasie100 doesn't show [ Kh, Kc ] a pair of kings.
CodyBowl wins $18.75 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and fives.
***** Hand History for Game 2115512004 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Friday, May 27, 20:29:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 41425 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: sgmsrm ( $29.5 )
Seat 5: qball213 ( $59.99 )
Seat 6: John007_000 ( $192.25 )
Seat 7: nvr_blf ( $66.25 )
Seat 9: Kraaga ( $42.5 )
Seat 2: haasie100 ( $61.5 )
Seat 3: mustardgas29 ( $9.92 )
Seat 8: LiLinds ( $39.19 )
Seat 4: bcdigger ( $42 )
qball213 posts small blind [$0.5].
John007_000 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to haasie100 [ Kd Ad ]
>You have options at Table 32468 Table!.
nvr_blf folds.
LiLinds folds.
Kraaga raises [$2].
sgmsrm calls [$2].
haasie100 raises [$3].
mustardgas29 folds.
qball213 has been reconnected and has 20 seconds to act.
qball213 folds.
John007_000 folds.
Kraaga calls [$1].
sgmsrm calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 7c, 8h ]
Kraaga checks.
sgmsrm checks.
haasie100 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
Kraaga bets [$2].
sgmsrm calls [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
>You have options at Table 32468 Table!.
Kraaga bets [$2].
sgmsrm calls [$2].
haasie100 folds.
Kraaga shows [ Kc, Jd ] a pair of jacks.
sgmsrm shows [ 6h, 9h ] a straight, five to nine.
sgmsrm wins $19.5 from the main pot with a straight, five to nine.
mustardgas29 has left the table.
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2005, 11:12am by scottie_g. »
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #11 on: May 29th, 2005, 11:21am »
I'm a bit of a weak-tight, but:
1st hand: Fold the turn.
2nd hand: Read dependent: If he's a bluffer, it looks good. If he's passive, I think a turn fold is in order. You're representing at least an over pair or AK, but he's still betting into you.
3rd hand: Fold the turn. It's a coordinated board and you have two overcards which are tainted. Also, there's a bet and call in front of you. If you really want to get to the showdown cheaply, I think a better line is bet the flop, check the turn, fold the river UI.
If you post hands in the future, don't post the results until after there's been some discussion, you get better feedback that way. Also post hands that you won and lost.
Miamipuck
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #12 on: May 29th, 2005, 3:12pm »
Nothing wrong with raising pre flop. I think it a must. But if you are going to raise and have 6-7 callers make sure you get a monster to continue raising and or betting.
1st. Hand- You played it well until the turn. That re-raise after betting out with a caller probably means you are behind, provided you do not have a monster yourself and you do not. So fold the turn.
2.) After the Ace what can you do? You got the most amount of money you could with the best of it. After that it really is dependent on your read and how the fish played his hands prior. Typically as you see here fish pee their pants when they get any Ace as a hole card. I am not going to say you played it badly.
3) You have to fold on that turn bet. AK is a drawing hand. Enough said. Unless of course if you have a read on the guy and he plays crap. I have been known to re-raise on these limit tables with nothing but only if it is my suspicion that the other guy has nothing, and never against a fish they call anything.
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2005, 3:14pm by Miamipuck »
Alanpsych
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #13 on: May 31st, 2005, 11:38am »
I generally agree with what's been said already. I've tried what you did with AK (#3, trying to win unimproved), and, in low limit, it just doesn't work enough to be worth it. Every once in a while, I'll see someone win with A high, and I'll say to myself, what the hell am I folding for? Ignore those thoughts! Players at this limit are playing such wide assortments of garbage that something is bound to hit them.
#1 Unless Mike is a maniac, and he doesn't seem to be, his switch from calling mode to re-raising mode deserves attention. Just make notes that he tends to be fairly straightforward, calling until he makes a good hand. On the other hand, #2 CodyBowl looks as though he's ready to go crazy with much less, so harder to read. But the fact that he's betting, there's an A on the board, and a third flush card, might convince me to drop the hand.
Shun
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #14 on: Jun 3rd, 2005, 11:57pm »
Eh, late to the party, but whatever.
You played all the hands fine pre-flop. I probably do the same on Hand #1, huge pot, for all I know the doof could have A8. I might fold the river though with an overcard and since I faced that raise on the turn. I probably wouldn't dump Hand #2 either, unless I knew the player was actually competent in which case I might lay it down on the turn or river. And I'd probably end up betting the flop on Hand #3 to take a stab at it, but your patience helped you out although I would of folded the turn.
Joiny
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #15 on: Jun 4th, 2005, 10:34am »
I'm a beginner limit player also...but the most helpful thing I've noticed would be Gametime+. All you need to know is how often the people put money into the pot...and that could guide your decisions for a while. I was surprised at how well bluffing works at the lower limits (.5/1) but then again, I might have just gotten lucky.
Basically just play solid poker...and make notes about the tight people, because if they're raising you...you seriously need to think about your hand.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #16 on: Jun 4th, 2005, 10:50am »
Well, I still play a lot more NL than Limit, but if there's one major difference its' that in Limit, you will cold call more often. If you are unsure about a hand, but think you probably have the best of it, check-call. Don't raise when you think you may be beat, because this gives your opponent the ability to re-raise you.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #17 on: Jun 20th, 2005, 7:47pm »
Hey guys, I've gotten back to playing limit again. I'm playing 1/2. Could someone give me some feedback on these hands?
***** Hand History for Game 2236666840 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 16:49:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 41379 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Zenta ( $77.75 )
Seat 2: tommoore1959 ( $100.73 )
Seat 5: Cardlinger ( $45.25 )
Seat 7: jjoecan ( $42.5 )
Seat 8: JordanLewis ( $5.27 )
Seat 9: NextCase_AA ( $111.13 )
Seat 3: DuhVEED ( $139.75 )
Seat 6: IlovePots ( $49.5 )
Seat 4: goodtimesrol ( $45 )
goodtimesrol posts small blind [$0.5].
IlovePots posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ Jd Jc ]
jjoecan calls [$1].
JordanLewis folds.
NextCase_AA folds.
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
DuhVEED calls [$1].
goodtimesrol folds.
IlovePots raises [$1].
jjoecan calls [$1].
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
DuhVEED calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 3h, 5d ]
IlovePots bets [$1].
jjoecan calls [$1].
Cardlinger has left the table.
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
DuhVEED raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
jjoecan calls [$1].
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
IlovePots checks.
jjoecan checks.
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
Zenta bets [$2].
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
tommoore1959 folds.
DuhVEED calls [$2].
vaedemedaj has joined the table.
IlovePots calls [$2].
jjoecan calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]
IlovePots checks.
jjoecan checks.
Zenta bets [$2].
DuhVEED folds.
IlovePots calls [$2].
jjoecan folds.
***** Hand History for Game 2236645662 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 16:44:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 41367 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: IlovePots ( $53.37 )
Seat 5: TomB32 ( $18 )
Seat 6: gasken ( $51.63 )
Seat 7: TheOddsman ( $43.75 )
Seat 8: Search1 ( $19 )
Seat 9: maddmax811 ( $40.75 )
Seat 3: Panzerclaus ( $35.38 )
Seat 4: MrMonetas ( $146.97 )
Seat 2: theeBeaver ( $47.25 )
Panzerclaus posts small blind [$0.5].
MrMonetas posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ Jc Js ]
TomB32 folds.
gasken folds.
TheOddsman folds.
Search1 calls [$1].
maddmax811 folds.
IlovePots raises [$2].
theeBeaver folds.
Panzerclaus calls [$1.5].
MrMonetas raises [$2].
Search1 folds.
IlovePots raises [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2].
MrMonetas calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 2s, 5s ]
Panzerclaus checks.
MrMonetas bets [$1].
IlovePots raises [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2].
MrMonetas raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
Panzerclaus calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
Panzerclaus checks.
MrMonetas bets [$2].
IlovePots calls [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2].
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
Panzerclaus checks.
MrMonetas bets [$2].
IlovePots calls [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2]
***** Hand History for Game 2236718572 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 17:01:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 41379 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Zenta ( $116.79 )
Seat 2: tommoore1959 ( $108.59 )
Seat 7: jjoecan ( $12 )
Seat 9: NextCase_AA ( $120.63 )
Seat 3: DuhVEED ( $127.75 )
Seat 6: IlovePots ( $35.5 )
Seat 4: goodtimesrol ( $34 )
Seat 5: vaedemedaj ( $57.87 )
NextCase_AA posts small blind [$0.5].
Zenta posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ As Qs ]
tommoore1959 raises [$2].
DuhVEED folds.
goodtimesrol folds.
vaedemedaj folds.
IlovePots raises [$3].
jjoecan folds.
NextCase_AA folds.
Zenta folds.
tommoore1959 raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 6s, 4c ]
tommoore1959 bets [$1].
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
IlovePots calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Js ]
tommoore1959 bets [$2].
IlovePots raises [$4].
tommoore1959 raises [$4].
IlovePots calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
tommoore1959 bets [$2].
IlovePots calls [$2].
***** Hand History for Game 2236657652 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 16:46:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 41367 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: IlovePots ( $43.87 )
Seat 5: TomB32 ( $17.5 )
Seat 6: gasken ( $50.13 )
Seat 7: TheOddsman ( $42.75 )
Seat 8: Search1 ( $18 )
Seat 9: maddmax811 ( $40.75 )
Seat 4: MrMonetas ( $168.97 )
Seat 2: theeBeaver ( $51.25 )
Seat 3: NOGARDKCALB ( $17 )
TheOddsman posts small blind [$0.5].
Search1 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ Ac Ks ]
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
maddmax811 folds.
IlovePots raises [$2].
theeBeaver folds.
NOGARDKCALB folds.
MrMonetas calls [$2].
TomB32 folds.
gasken folds.
TheOddsman folds.
Search1 calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, Kh, Jd ]
Search1 checks.
IlovePots bets [$1].
MrMonetas calls [$1].
Search1 raises [$2].
IlovePots raises [$2].
MrMonetas calls [$2].
Search1 raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
MrMonetas calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
Search1 bets [$2].
IlovePots folds.
MrMonetas calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
Search1 checks.
MrMonetas bets [$2].
Search1 calls [$2].
goofyballer
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #18 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 2:17am »
First hand: re-raise the flop. If he just calls, bet out and/or raise the turn. If he caps, then check-call to the end.
Second hand: Looks like you're probably up against AA/KK...nothing you can do but check-call. You played it fine.
Third hand: I like it. Judging by his turn re-raise, he probably has AK, but you still gotta check-call.
Fourth hand: Played it fine.
A lot of these look like situations where you had a powerful hand, but someone happened to catch something better. Either that or they're just idiots that raise with garbage and like to give you money. You certainly have to look them up though.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #19 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 8:52am »
Quote:
Third hand: I like it. Judging by his turn re-raise, he probably has AK, but you still gotta check-call.
This hand, the guy played A-6 and flopped 2 pair. He re-raised me on the turn. When I have A-Q and hit an ace with no real draws on the board, is there any way I should lay this down? A lot of times I find that re-raises like this mean 2 pair or a set in limit.
mattaca
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #20 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 9:53am »
I don't see much wrong with your play on those hands, they just hit their cards.
I don't think I lay down AQ there, I would just check call as you did. His preflop reraise with A6 is interesting, he had to be trying to represent a bigger hand and he just got lucky and hit his flop.
LargeFarva
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #21 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 10:32am »
on May 27th, 2005, 10:03pm, MJ wrote:
-4BB/hr... I'm thinking play less hands. Don't draw so much. Don't play speculative hands.
This is the best advice I could offer, as well. U have to be really selective with starting hands, especially in early position. Most people(Low limit players) *will not* muck KQo, or AQo from any position. I've found, especially at the low limits, these hands just can't stand up to the 5-7 way pots u're gonna have most of the time. Stick to large suited cards, and pairs. I can almost guarantee this alone will provide u with a profit over a moderate sample size. Get u're VPIP under 20% (or lower) if u haven't already. Good luck, and happy whoring.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #22 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 12:54pm »
Quote:
This is the best advice I could offer, as well. U have to be really selective with starting hands, especially in early position. Most people(Low limit players) *will not* muck KQo, or AQo from any position. I've found, especially at the low limits, these hands just can't stand up to the 5-7 way pots u're gonna have most of the time.
My VP$IP is probably a little below 20% at the 1/2. I pretty much skipped over the .5/1 game because of the 5-7 way pots. It makes it very difficult to play A-A when there are 6 other people in the pot. Someone's gonna hit their 2 pair, set, straight or flush to take down your aces.
The hardest thing about limit is being able to lay down A-K, Q-Q, K-K, etc. when those straight and flush chasers hit their hand. And, unlike NL, you can't bet enough on the flop to make them lay down their draw. Most times they are getting the right pots odds to call the bet.
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005, 12:56pm by scottie_g. »
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #23 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 6:52pm »
One more hand guys... I think I played this right, but maybe you guys would have done something different.
Thanks a lot for the feedback btw.
Game #870466515 - $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - 2005/06/21-19:35:55.4 (CST)
Table "Akamaru" (real money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: Papabear20 ($24.00 in chips)
Seat 2: meatwad3 ($11.75 in chips)
Seat 3: boo121 ($20.50 in chips)
Seat 4: LPGATE ($40.00 in chips)
Seat 5: lakeblue ($98.00 in chips)
Seat 6: SaminAR ($41.75 in chips)
Seat 7: NoBueno ($40.00 in chips)
Seat 8: clatimer ($34.00 in chips)
Seat 9: commander88 ($33.25 in chips)
Seat 10: heathbarway ($9.75 in chips)
heathbarway: Post Small Blind ($0.50)
Papabear20: Post Big Blind ($1)
LPGATE : Sit out
NoBueno : Sit out
Dealing...
Dealt to meatwad3 [ Kd ]
Dealt to meatwad3 [ Qd ]
meatwad3: Call ($1)
boo121 : Call ($1)
lakeblue: Fold
SaminAR : Fold
clatimer: Call ($1)
commander88: Fold
heathbarway: Call ($0.50)
Papabear20: Check
*** FLOP *** : [ Th 7d 6d ]
heathbarway: Check
Papabear20: Bet ($1)
meatwad3: Call ($1)
boo121 : Fold
clatimer: Call ($1)
heathbarway: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ Th 7d 6d ] [ 2c ]
Papabear20: Bet ($2)
meatwad3: Call ($2)
clatimer: Call ($2)
*** RIVER *** : [ Th 7d 6d 2c ] [ Kh ]
Papabear20: Bet ($2)
meatwad3: Raise ($4)
clatimer: Fold
Papabear20: Call ($2)
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #24 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 7:15pm »
I think I'm finding a raise in there somewhere sooner than the river. I'm thinking both preflop and on flop. On the flop you have 2 overs, flush draw, and BD straight. Raising also helps clean up some of your outs.. If they give you the free card, take it.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #25 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 7:36pm »
Quote:
Raising also helps clean up some of your outs.. If they give you the free card, take it.
What do you mean by this?
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #26 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 8:09pm »
Cleaning up outs: Get rid of a hand out that might out draw you.
For example,
Let's say clatimer has something like AQ, K6. If you raise the flop, he may fold when faced with calling 2 bets cold which makes catching one of your cards (K,Q) a winning hand for you.
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005, 8:10pm by Biggle10 »
scottie_g.
Please help a Beginner Limit player
« on: May 27th, 2005, 7:38pm »
Now, I am not new to poker... I have been playing for about 2 years, read a variety of books, and have played a number of SNG games and NL and PL cash games.
In all this time, my experience with Limit poker is slim to none. I like variety, so I decided to try playing the 1/2 Limit games to whore instead of the $50 PL or NL games. I played about 400 hands (some .5/1 also), and stopped because my bankroll seemed to be steadily decreasing.
My BB/100 for about 400 hands was -4.1 BB/100
Any advice for someone who is accustumed to playing No Limit? I'm getting killed at the Limit tables!!!
Bob
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #1 on: May 27th, 2005, 7:53pm »
Limit games will deal you a lot more bad beats because it is less expensive to stay in until the river. You need to be able read your opponents and throw away good hands.
For example, if I have top pair + top kicker, and somebody keeps checking and calling - it tells me he has second pair, or is on a draw. If on the river, he comes out gunning after checking and betting the whole way, then chances are the river card made him a better hand. Perhaps 2 pair, perhaps the gutshot draw that he was not getting the odds to draw to. Be ready to throw away hands that can be beaten, especially if a person who has checked and called all of a sudden comes out betting &/or raising.
The biggest thing is knowing when you are beat and laying down the hand. Sometimes it is tough when you have AA and the top card on the board is a T.
You have to get to the 5/10 level before people will not usually until the river just to see if they can hit their miracle 2 outter. It can be frustrating, but I have made quite a bit of money at limit tables.
-Bob
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #2 on: May 27th, 2005, 8:53pm »
Check-raises are almost never bluffs at low limits.
MJ
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #3 on: May 27th, 2005, 10:03pm »
-4BB/hr... I'm thinking play less hands. Don't draw so much. Don't play speculative hands.
Shun
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #4 on: May 28th, 2005, 9:50am »
400 hands, -4BB/100 is easy to come by. You need a lot of hands to have real meaningful statistics in limit. I'm sure I could find a run of 400 hands myself where I've maybe done worse than that.
633 hands, month of January, at $1/2 and £1/2 -1.96bb/hr and -4.54BB/100. I put money in in 19.59% of my hands (that's fine tight enough). So it can happen to good players too.
As long as your stats are within normal means for tightness/PF aggression/etc, you're probably not doing too bad. If your VP$IP in PokerTracker is between 15-25%. I'd consider that good for now. Be raising around 5% pre-flop, that's good too or so. As long as you're following the advice in limit books, you're probably good.
People complain about getting drawn out on in limit, but I think the most fun I have in limit is calling getting 10:1 on my measly 4.1:1 to complete on the turn flush draw and hitting it. Or value-raising my flush draw when 3 people have already called on the flop and I get my free card on the turn.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #5 on: May 28th, 2005, 10:52am »
Let me know if my thinking is correct:
In limit poker, you find yourself having pot odds to call a bet much more often than in No Limit games. For example, you are more likely to draw on an open ended straigt draw or a flush draw.
I think one of the most important things in Limit poker is making sure that YOU are drawing to the best hand. In other words, don't call a bet just because you have the correct pot odds to hit your straight or flush. God knows, there are probably 4 other people drawing to the same thing, or maybe even a full house.
I think it is almost more important to have the BEST drawing hand rather than the BEST starting hand.
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2005, 10:52am by scottie_g. »
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #6 on: May 28th, 2005, 10:56am »
One thing I may be doing wrong is being too aggressive at the $1/2 games. My PF raise is about 7.4% and my PF aggression is at 2.5.
I like to bet flush draws and stuff like that... maybe too often.
This probably comes from my NL experience where I would often rather raise or fold than call.
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #7 on: May 28th, 2005, 11:06am »
What is your VPip?
Betting draws is fine. One thing that's different between NL and limits is that you can't bet people out of the pot. You can forget about bluffing at low limits. Your draw bets are for value.
Are you staying with hands too long? Implied odds in limit are greatly diminished.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #8 on: May 28th, 2005, 12:46pm »
Vol. Put $ in the pot = 18%
Yea, bluffing in limit games isn't really much of an option until you are up at $5/10 maybe.. where the bet of $10 on the flop is actually worth something Smiley
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #10 on: May 29th, 2005, 11:11am »
I am haasie100 here.
***** Hand History for Game 2115941446 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Friday, May 27, 21:55:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 41418 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: mike070781 ( $44 )
Seat 3: kaylerf ( $46.08 )
Seat 5: CodyBowl ( $32.45 )
Seat 6: RoadKing_99 ( $33.9 )
Seat 7: djebugman ( $34.75 )
Seat 8: haasie100 ( $54.5 )
Seat 1: reklesskelly ( $42.75 )
Seat 9: Hobojoe918 ( $83.25 )
haasie100 posts small blind [$0.5].
Hobojoe918 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to haasie100 [ Tc Ts ]
reklesskelly calls [$1].
mike070781 calls [$1].
ecomx has joined the table.
kaylerf folds.
CodyBowl folds.
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman calls [$1].
haasie100 raises [$1.5].
Hobojoe918 calls [$1].
reklesskelly calls [$1].
mike070781 calls [$1].
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2d, 7c, 4c ]
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
haasie100 bets [$1].
Hobojoe918 folds.
reklesskelly calls [$1].
mike070781 calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
haasie100 bets [$2].
reklesskelly calls [$2].
mike070781 raises [$4].
RoadKing_99 folds.
djebugman folds.
haasie100 calls [$2].
reklesskelly calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ Qh ]
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
haasie100 checks.
reklesskelly checks.
mike070781 bets [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
reklesskelly calls [$2].
mike070781 shows [ 7s, 8s ] two pairs, eights and sevens.
haasie100 doesn't show [ Tc, Ts ] a pair of tens.
reklesskelly doesn't show [ 3c, Qc ] a pair of queens.
mike070781 wins $34 from the main pot with two pairs, eights and sevens.
***** Hand History for Game 2115908107 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Friday, May 27, 21:48:28 EDT 2005
Table Table 41418 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: mike070781 ( $35.5 )
Seat 3: kaylerf ( $40.83 )
Seat 4: JAMPULLER ( $59.75 )
Seat 5: CodyBowl ( $33.7 )
Seat 6: RoadKing_99 ( $47.9 )
Seat 7: djebugman ( $32.25 )
Seat 8: haasie100 ( $63.5 )
Seat 1: reklesskelly ( $44.25 )
Seat 9: Hobojoe918 ( $76.75 )
Hobojoe918 posts small blind [$0.5].
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
reklesskelly posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to haasie100 [ Kh Kc ]
mike070781 folds.
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
kaylerf folds.
JAMPULLER folds.
CodyBowl calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
>You have options at Table 32468 Table!.
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
djebugman folds.
haasie100 raises [$2].
Hobojoe918 folds.
reklesskelly folds.
CodyBowl calls [$1].
RoadKing_99 calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, 8s, 5h ]
CodyBowl bets [$1].
RoadKing_99 folds.
haasie100 raises [$2].
>You have options at Table 41425 (9 max) Table!.
CodyBowl calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
CodyBowl bets [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ Ts ]
CodyBowl bets [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
CodyBowl shows [ 5s, As ] two pairs, aces and fives.
haasie100 doesn't show [ Kh, Kc ] a pair of kings.
CodyBowl wins $18.75 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and fives.
***** Hand History for Game 2115512004 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Friday, May 27, 20:29:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 41425 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: sgmsrm ( $29.5 )
Seat 5: qball213 ( $59.99 )
Seat 6: John007_000 ( $192.25 )
Seat 7: nvr_blf ( $66.25 )
Seat 9: Kraaga ( $42.5 )
Seat 2: haasie100 ( $61.5 )
Seat 3: mustardgas29 ( $9.92 )
Seat 8: LiLinds ( $39.19 )
Seat 4: bcdigger ( $42 )
qball213 posts small blind [$0.5].
John007_000 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to haasie100 [ Kd Ad ]
>You have options at Table 32468 Table!.
nvr_blf folds.
LiLinds folds.
Kraaga raises [$2].
sgmsrm calls [$2].
haasie100 raises [$3].
mustardgas29 folds.
qball213 has been reconnected and has 20 seconds to act.
qball213 folds.
John007_000 folds.
Kraaga calls [$1].
sgmsrm calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 7c, 8h ]
Kraaga checks.
sgmsrm checks.
haasie100 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
Kraaga bets [$2].
sgmsrm calls [$2].
haasie100 calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
>You have options at Table 32468 Table!.
Kraaga bets [$2].
sgmsrm calls [$2].
haasie100 folds.
Kraaga shows [ Kc, Jd ] a pair of jacks.
sgmsrm shows [ 6h, 9h ] a straight, five to nine.
sgmsrm wins $19.5 from the main pot with a straight, five to nine.
mustardgas29 has left the table.
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2005, 11:12am by scottie_g. »
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #11 on: May 29th, 2005, 11:21am »
I'm a bit of a weak-tight, but:
1st hand: Fold the turn.
2nd hand: Read dependent: If he's a bluffer, it looks good. If he's passive, I think a turn fold is in order. You're representing at least an over pair or AK, but he's still betting into you.
3rd hand: Fold the turn. It's a coordinated board and you have two overcards which are tainted. Also, there's a bet and call in front of you. If you really want to get to the showdown cheaply, I think a better line is bet the flop, check the turn, fold the river UI.
If you post hands in the future, don't post the results until after there's been some discussion, you get better feedback that way. Also post hands that you won and lost.
Miamipuck
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #12 on: May 29th, 2005, 3:12pm »
Nothing wrong with raising pre flop. I think it a must. But if you are going to raise and have 6-7 callers make sure you get a monster to continue raising and or betting.
1st. Hand- You played it well until the turn. That re-raise after betting out with a caller probably means you are behind, provided you do not have a monster yourself and you do not. So fold the turn.
2.) After the Ace what can you do? You got the most amount of money you could with the best of it. After that it really is dependent on your read and how the fish played his hands prior. Typically as you see here fish pee their pants when they get any Ace as a hole card. I am not going to say you played it badly.
3) You have to fold on that turn bet. AK is a drawing hand. Enough said. Unless of course if you have a read on the guy and he plays crap. I have been known to re-raise on these limit tables with nothing but only if it is my suspicion that the other guy has nothing, and never against a fish they call anything.
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2005, 3:14pm by Miamipuck »
Alanpsych
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #13 on: May 31st, 2005, 11:38am »
I generally agree with what's been said already. I've tried what you did with AK (#3, trying to win unimproved), and, in low limit, it just doesn't work enough to be worth it. Every once in a while, I'll see someone win with A high, and I'll say to myself, what the hell am I folding for? Ignore those thoughts! Players at this limit are playing such wide assortments of garbage that something is bound to hit them.
#1 Unless Mike is a maniac, and he doesn't seem to be, his switch from calling mode to re-raising mode deserves attention. Just make notes that he tends to be fairly straightforward, calling until he makes a good hand. On the other hand, #2 CodyBowl looks as though he's ready to go crazy with much less, so harder to read. But the fact that he's betting, there's an A on the board, and a third flush card, might convince me to drop the hand.
Shun
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #14 on: Jun 3rd, 2005, 11:57pm »
Eh, late to the party, but whatever.
You played all the hands fine pre-flop. I probably do the same on Hand #1, huge pot, for all I know the doof could have A8. I might fold the river though with an overcard and since I faced that raise on the turn. I probably wouldn't dump Hand #2 either, unless I knew the player was actually competent in which case I might lay it down on the turn or river. And I'd probably end up betting the flop on Hand #3 to take a stab at it, but your patience helped you out although I would of folded the turn.
Joiny
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #15 on: Jun 4th, 2005, 10:34am »
I'm a beginner limit player also...but the most helpful thing I've noticed would be Gametime+. All you need to know is how often the people put money into the pot...and that could guide your decisions for a while. I was surprised at how well bluffing works at the lower limits (.5/1) but then again, I might have just gotten lucky.
Basically just play solid poker...and make notes about the tight people, because if they're raising you...you seriously need to think about your hand.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #16 on: Jun 4th, 2005, 10:50am »
Well, I still play a lot more NL than Limit, but if there's one major difference its' that in Limit, you will cold call more often. If you are unsure about a hand, but think you probably have the best of it, check-call. Don't raise when you think you may be beat, because this gives your opponent the ability to re-raise you.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #17 on: Jun 20th, 2005, 7:47pm »
Hey guys, I've gotten back to playing limit again. I'm playing 1/2. Could someone give me some feedback on these hands?
***** Hand History for Game 2236666840 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 16:49:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 41379 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Zenta ( $77.75 )
Seat 2: tommoore1959 ( $100.73 )
Seat 5: Cardlinger ( $45.25 )
Seat 7: jjoecan ( $42.5 )
Seat 8: JordanLewis ( $5.27 )
Seat 9: NextCase_AA ( $111.13 )
Seat 3: DuhVEED ( $139.75 )
Seat 6: IlovePots ( $49.5 )
Seat 4: goodtimesrol ( $45 )
goodtimesrol posts small blind [$0.5].
IlovePots posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ Jd Jc ]
jjoecan calls [$1].
JordanLewis folds.
NextCase_AA folds.
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
DuhVEED calls [$1].
goodtimesrol folds.
IlovePots raises [$1].
jjoecan calls [$1].
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
DuhVEED calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 3h, 5d ]
IlovePots bets [$1].
jjoecan calls [$1].
Cardlinger has left the table.
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
DuhVEED raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
jjoecan calls [$1].
Zenta calls [$1].
tommoore1959 calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
IlovePots checks.
jjoecan checks.
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
Zenta bets [$2].
>You have options at Table 41367 (9 max) Table!.
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
tommoore1959 folds.
DuhVEED calls [$2].
vaedemedaj has joined the table.
IlovePots calls [$2].
jjoecan calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]
IlovePots checks.
jjoecan checks.
Zenta bets [$2].
DuhVEED folds.
IlovePots calls [$2].
jjoecan folds.
***** Hand History for Game 2236645662 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 16:44:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 41367 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: IlovePots ( $53.37 )
Seat 5: TomB32 ( $18 )
Seat 6: gasken ( $51.63 )
Seat 7: TheOddsman ( $43.75 )
Seat 8: Search1 ( $19 )
Seat 9: maddmax811 ( $40.75 )
Seat 3: Panzerclaus ( $35.38 )
Seat 4: MrMonetas ( $146.97 )
Seat 2: theeBeaver ( $47.25 )
Panzerclaus posts small blind [$0.5].
MrMonetas posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ Jc Js ]
TomB32 folds.
gasken folds.
TheOddsman folds.
Search1 calls [$1].
maddmax811 folds.
IlovePots raises [$2].
theeBeaver folds.
Panzerclaus calls [$1.5].
MrMonetas raises [$2].
Search1 folds.
IlovePots raises [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2].
MrMonetas calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 2s, 5s ]
Panzerclaus checks.
MrMonetas bets [$1].
IlovePots raises [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2].
MrMonetas raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
Panzerclaus calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
Panzerclaus checks.
MrMonetas bets [$2].
IlovePots calls [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2].
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
Panzerclaus checks.
MrMonetas bets [$2].
IlovePots calls [$2].
Panzerclaus calls [$2]
***** Hand History for Game 2236718572 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 17:01:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 41379 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Zenta ( $116.79 )
Seat 2: tommoore1959 ( $108.59 )
Seat 7: jjoecan ( $12 )
Seat 9: NextCase_AA ( $120.63 )
Seat 3: DuhVEED ( $127.75 )
Seat 6: IlovePots ( $35.5 )
Seat 4: goodtimesrol ( $34 )
Seat 5: vaedemedaj ( $57.87 )
NextCase_AA posts small blind [$0.5].
Zenta posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ As Qs ]
tommoore1959 raises [$2].
DuhVEED folds.
goodtimesrol folds.
vaedemedaj folds.
IlovePots raises [$3].
jjoecan folds.
NextCase_AA folds.
Zenta folds.
tommoore1959 raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 6s, 4c ]
tommoore1959 bets [$1].
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
IlovePots calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Js ]
tommoore1959 bets [$2].
IlovePots raises [$4].
tommoore1959 raises [$4].
IlovePots calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
tommoore1959 bets [$2].
IlovePots calls [$2].
***** Hand History for Game 2236657652 *****
$1/$2 Hold'em - Monday, June 20, 16:46:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 41367 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: IlovePots ( $43.87 )
Seat 5: TomB32 ( $17.5 )
Seat 6: gasken ( $50.13 )
Seat 7: TheOddsman ( $42.75 )
Seat 8: Search1 ( $18 )
Seat 9: maddmax811 ( $40.75 )
Seat 4: MrMonetas ( $168.97 )
Seat 2: theeBeaver ( $51.25 )
Seat 3: NOGARDKCALB ( $17 )
TheOddsman posts small blind [$0.5].
Search1 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IlovePots [ Ac Ks ]
>You have options at Table 36325 Table!.
maddmax811 folds.
IlovePots raises [$2].
theeBeaver folds.
NOGARDKCALB folds.
MrMonetas calls [$2].
TomB32 folds.
gasken folds.
TheOddsman folds.
Search1 calls [$1].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, Kh, Jd ]
Search1 checks.
IlovePots bets [$1].
MrMonetas calls [$1].
Search1 raises [$2].
IlovePots raises [$2].
MrMonetas calls [$2].
Search1 raises [$2].
IlovePots calls [$1].
MrMonetas calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
Search1 bets [$2].
IlovePots folds.
MrMonetas calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
Search1 checks.
MrMonetas bets [$2].
Search1 calls [$2].
goofyballer
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #18 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 2:17am »
First hand: re-raise the flop. If he just calls, bet out and/or raise the turn. If he caps, then check-call to the end.
Second hand: Looks like you're probably up against AA/KK...nothing you can do but check-call. You played it fine.
Third hand: I like it. Judging by his turn re-raise, he probably has AK, but you still gotta check-call.
Fourth hand: Played it fine.
A lot of these look like situations where you had a powerful hand, but someone happened to catch something better. Either that or they're just idiots that raise with garbage and like to give you money. You certainly have to look them up though.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #19 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 8:52am »
Quote:
Third hand: I like it. Judging by his turn re-raise, he probably has AK, but you still gotta check-call.
This hand, the guy played A-6 and flopped 2 pair. He re-raised me on the turn. When I have A-Q and hit an ace with no real draws on the board, is there any way I should lay this down? A lot of times I find that re-raises like this mean 2 pair or a set in limit.
mattaca
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #20 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 9:53am »
I don't see much wrong with your play on those hands, they just hit their cards.
I don't think I lay down AQ there, I would just check call as you did. His preflop reraise with A6 is interesting, he had to be trying to represent a bigger hand and he just got lucky and hit his flop.
LargeFarva
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #21 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 10:32am »
on May 27th, 2005, 10:03pm, MJ wrote:
-4BB/hr... I'm thinking play less hands. Don't draw so much. Don't play speculative hands.
This is the best advice I could offer, as well. U have to be really selective with starting hands, especially in early position. Most people(Low limit players) *will not* muck KQo, or AQo from any position. I've found, especially at the low limits, these hands just can't stand up to the 5-7 way pots u're gonna have most of the time. Stick to large suited cards, and pairs. I can almost guarantee this alone will provide u with a profit over a moderate sample size. Get u're VPIP under 20% (or lower) if u haven't already. Good luck, and happy whoring.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #22 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 12:54pm »
Quote:
This is the best advice I could offer, as well. U have to be really selective with starting hands, especially in early position. Most people(Low limit players) *will not* muck KQo, or AQo from any position. I've found, especially at the low limits, these hands just can't stand up to the 5-7 way pots u're gonna have most of the time.
My VP$IP is probably a little below 20% at the 1/2. I pretty much skipped over the .5/1 game because of the 5-7 way pots. It makes it very difficult to play A-A when there are 6 other people in the pot. Someone's gonna hit their 2 pair, set, straight or flush to take down your aces.
The hardest thing about limit is being able to lay down A-K, Q-Q, K-K, etc. when those straight and flush chasers hit their hand. And, unlike NL, you can't bet enough on the flop to make them lay down their draw. Most times they are getting the right pots odds to call the bet.
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005, 12:56pm by scottie_g. »
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #23 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 6:52pm »
One more hand guys... I think I played this right, but maybe you guys would have done something different.
Thanks a lot for the feedback btw.
Game #870466515 - $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - 2005/06/21-19:35:55.4 (CST)
Table "Akamaru" (real money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: Papabear20 ($24.00 in chips)
Seat 2: meatwad3 ($11.75 in chips)
Seat 3: boo121 ($20.50 in chips)
Seat 4: LPGATE ($40.00 in chips)
Seat 5: lakeblue ($98.00 in chips)
Seat 6: SaminAR ($41.75 in chips)
Seat 7: NoBueno ($40.00 in chips)
Seat 8: clatimer ($34.00 in chips)
Seat 9: commander88 ($33.25 in chips)
Seat 10: heathbarway ($9.75 in chips)
heathbarway: Post Small Blind ($0.50)
Papabear20: Post Big Blind ($1)
LPGATE : Sit out
NoBueno : Sit out
Dealing...
Dealt to meatwad3 [ Kd ]
Dealt to meatwad3 [ Qd ]
meatwad3: Call ($1)
boo121 : Call ($1)
lakeblue: Fold
SaminAR : Fold
clatimer: Call ($1)
commander88: Fold
heathbarway: Call ($0.50)
Papabear20: Check
*** FLOP *** : [ Th 7d 6d ]
heathbarway: Check
Papabear20: Bet ($1)
meatwad3: Call ($1)
boo121 : Fold
clatimer: Call ($1)
heathbarway: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ Th 7d 6d ] [ 2c ]
Papabear20: Bet ($2)
meatwad3: Call ($2)
clatimer: Call ($2)
*** RIVER *** : [ Th 7d 6d 2c ] [ Kh ]
Papabear20: Bet ($2)
meatwad3: Raise ($4)
clatimer: Fold
Papabear20: Call ($2)
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #24 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 7:15pm »
I think I'm finding a raise in there somewhere sooner than the river. I'm thinking both preflop and on flop. On the flop you have 2 overs, flush draw, and BD straight. Raising also helps clean up some of your outs.. If they give you the free card, take it.
scottie_g.
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #25 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 7:36pm »
Quote:
Raising also helps clean up some of your outs.. If they give you the free card, take it.
What do you mean by this?
Biggle10
Re: Please help a Beginner Limit player
« Reply #26 on: Jun 21st, 2005, 8:09pm »
Cleaning up outs: Get rid of a hand out that might out draw you.
For example,
Let's say clatimer has something like AQ, K6. If you raise the flop, he may fold when faced with calling 2 bets cold which makes catching one of your cards (K,Q) a winning hand for you.
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2005, 8:10pm by Biggle10 »
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