Tight Poker

[snickers99]

Here's Day Three of my March 2007 Niagara Falls trip. For Day One, click here and for Day Two, click here.

I should have planned better for this weekend. It's Daylight Savings time, which means I lose an hour. An hour less poker, an hour less sleep...whichever way you look at it, my poker weekend is one less hour. I thought about asking for a partial refund at the motel front desk since I could only use the room for 23 hours, but didn't.

The lack of sleep continued. When I walked into my room last night, I could hear a baby crying. Not loud, but I could hear it. I stayed up a little, watched some TV, posted on the forum, and then decided to go to bed. No baby crying, but the guy in the room next to me was coughing. Argh. I'm so tired. I decide to turn the fan on the ac/heater unit. Maybe if I just use the fan, it won't turn on and off all night and I can get some sleep. It worked kinda well. It provided the constant hum I needed to sleep, but it must have been pulling in air from the outside since the room got pretty darn cold after a while. That woke me up, so I had to struggle in the dark to put the heat on. Of course, then it eventually got too hot. I need to invest in something that makes some noise....a small fan, or maybe the Sharper Image Sound Soother Fifty with Stereo Speakers. Whoa...$149.95. Maybe a small fan will do. Wal Mart, here I come.

BTW, later in the day I sat next to a guy who was staying at the hotel right there in the casino. I asked how much the room was. He said around $117 and the room is beautiful. $117 is a lot greater than the $42 I'm paying at Microtel, but there are advantages to staying right there. Like, I could excuse myself from the table, go up to my room, grab a pillow, and scream at the top of my lungs how stupid people are and why do they always get lucky on me. I may treat myself next time, but we're talking more than $150 more per trip. We'll see. There's also the Hampton Inn right around the corner. I believe they were at around $85 a night.

There's supposed to be donuts in the poker room this morning, so I'm skipping the free breakfast at the hotel. I'm also moving slow. I shouldn't be since the latest I can play until is 5pm (I shoot to leave at 4pm, but usually miss) as I have to drive home today. You would think I would try to get to the poker room as soon as I could. It's almost ten by the time I call the poker room to be put on the waiting list, check out, and hit the road to the casino. BTW, apparently, I just missed a 'domestic' at the motel. When I checked out, the clerk asked me if I heard the yelling. Her and the guy in front of me who was checking out were talking about it when I walked up. I assumed she meant last night and I said all I heard was a baby crying. She said no, it just happened now right down the hallway. Lots of yelling. I musta been out at my car loading it up. Hmmm. Another reason to treat myself at the Seneca Casino/Hotel? I bet if two people are yelling at each other in a room, you wouldn't even hear it.

10:25 and I walk into the poker room. No donuts. WTF? I'm starving. Bastards. 5 minutes later, I'm called for a new 1/2 NL table. Even thou I blew my "set aside $100 NL bankroll" yesterday, it wasn't as bad as I thought and, of course, that horrible call by the guy with kings was the main reason for that. So, we'll give it another go this morning. We can always fall back on good ol' Limit to kill time if I get down a buyin or two.

Table seems ok. One maniac. I can handle that. 2 or 3 other questionable players. A couple average to good players. I really don't see anybody that I need to steer clear of or especially watch. Oops. I take that back. There was one good player there. Well, he was tight, so I assume he was playing good cards.

Shortly after the table starts, TWO people misread their hands as one thinks he flopped a straight and the other thinks he has the nut flush. Hilarity ensues as they both go all-in on the flop, flip up their cards, and both realize they don't have what they think they had. Guy who thought he had the flush wins with a pair or something.

My cold decking continues from yesterday. I think I play one hand outside the blinds in the first hour or so. There's a big tournament ($540) upstairs and the line to sign up or sign in or buy at the last second or something goes right behind me. It's a little distracting...people talking right behind me, bumping my chair, etc. Tournament is delayed so all these people can get through the line. Once it starts, the poker room is pretty quiet.

Finally, two red kings in LP. Since I only play AA or KK, I'm happy. That was a joke. I'm not that tight. One limper, I raise to $8, BB (the maniac) calls, limper calls. Harmless looking flop...no flush draw, etc...and it's checked to me. I bet 15(I think), maniac calls, limper folds. Turn is nothing, I bet $25, he folds.

Finally, donuts come out at noon. I grab two. I wonder if they didn't bring them out earlier because of all the tournament players hanging around.

KQo in LP, I limp with several others. Flop is Q-K-A and there's a bet of $5 to me. I raise to $15 and the original bettor is the only caller. Turn is a ten...didn't want to see that. It goes check check. River is a harmless looking three. He bets $15. I start to think. No flush draw. I'm really only worried about a jack. No preflop raise, so probably no AK or AQ. Maybe A3 or A10. Fuck it...I call. He flips over JQ. I guess even thou I raised, staying with a gutshot and bottom pair is good enough for you.

Because of the hand above and some other misses/no cards, I'm down to $50, so I top off to $100.

Later, 67s in MP, I limp with a couple others. Flop is x-4-5. Checked around. I should have bet. There were some hands where I did bet my draws, but I didn't here. Blank on the turn and someone bets $15. I'm semi-tilty/frustrated, and if I can hit my straight, I figure I can get paid. I'm the only one that calls. River is a beautiful 3 and the guy bets $25. I double check my cards...make sure there's no flush or FH possible (there isn't) and I raise to $50 total, putting him all in. He calls and flips over a lower straight and I take a nice pot. This puts me to down $1 on the day.

9-10 of diamonds one off the button and I limp. Flop is 9-x-K w/two diamonds. Checked to me and I bet $10. One caller. Get my flush on the turn, bet ten, get raised to 20. My flush no good? I call. River pairs the board, he bets $15, I call and he flips over a king for TP...my hand is good.

Huge hand as I get KK UTG. I make it $8, one caller, maniac raises to $16. This guy has been crazy...calling crazy all-ins, going all-in with nothing huge, etc. He had a huge stack in front of him thanks to some luck and hitting at the right time (by the time I left, he was probably at around $100 even thou at one point, he had to have something like $500). I guess it's go time. I have about $140 left and I make it $30 more. He goes all-in (he easily has me covered) even thou there's still someone left to act. This other guy takes forever to decide. What's there to decide? You know at the very least, one of us has KK...good chance of AA the way the hand is playing out. He finally folds, I call the all-in and maniac flips over AA. Fuck me. No help. GG me...busto. It's 2:00 and I reload. Sure I'm mad at my luck, but there's one hand that beats me preflop and I'm not laying down kings against the table maniac.

My 'luck' continues when I flop two pair with KQ, but someone flops a straight and I pay him off as he goes all in after I bet $15 (my bet left him with $23 and he pushed).

I can't reload as I'm running out of money and it's getting close to the time where I have to leave. I'm down to my last $23 and look down at AK. Fuck it. I'm all in. The guy from the AA/KK hand calls me. He flips up AJ. I feel this is fitting since he has most of my money anyway, but my hand actually holds up and I double up.

I pick up another small pot or two...it's 3:30 and I'm sitting with about $65. Planning on leaving at 4.

FLOOR TO TABLE SEVEN!! Controversy erupts at our table. A hand I'm not involved in is going fine, until the end. After the river card, there's a bet and a call. The guy to my left (who bought in for the minimum $40...twice...I think his plan was to play small stack poker) asks the woman if she had a flush. I'm in seat 9, she's in seat 2. I hear her say something, but I'm not sure what she said. He thinks she says yep and he mucks his hand...I mean, he mucked them right into the dealer's pile (since he's in seat 10)...there's no chance to recover his cards even if the dealer could. She flips up her cards for (I believe) top pair. He's pissed. He had her beat. He claims she said yep when he asked her if she had the flush. She says she said no such thing and the people sitting around her agree. He's mad because he's saying she misrepresented her hand and you can't do that. Half the table yells out that she can say anything she wants...cards speak. He insists no, she can't. The floor gets called. The dealer explains. The pot goes to the lady since the dealer did not clearly hear what she said, plus, she tabled her hand and he mucked (mainly, because he mucked). Floor walks away. We question the dealer. No, you are not allowed to misrepresent your hand. If the floor determined she did, the whole table would have gotten a warning. She would have kept the pot, but the next time it happened, the pot could be taken away from the winner.

I don't understand why people don't table their hand everytime. Yeah, I know. You don't always want people to know what you're playing. But there have been a couple times where I misread my hand and won the pot when I thought I lost it. As a matter of fact, Puck did the very same thing yesterday...thought he lost when he won. But he tabled his hand and the pot was shoved his way. This is a little different thou. I'm especially not going to take someone's word for it and muck my cards without even seeing the other guy's hand. "Oh, you have a full house again? Wow...I believe you...I muck my nut flush." C'mon!!!

We actually had a little trouble earlier in the day that I almost forgot about. Guy with the miniature duck decoy card protector I mentioned in Day Two is involved in a hand with the maniac from my AA/KK hand. I believe maniac bet, decoy guy raised, maniac asked how much decoy has left. Decoy moves his hands out of the way so maniac could see his chips and decoy guy starts counting. Maniac says never mind, I put you all in, (slight pause), I call. Decoy guy says wait a minute...do you call? And maniac says no, I'm all in. Decoy guy says that's not what he said...he said I call. The table chimes in...maniac said 'I put you all in' first...it's all-in to you. Decoy guy insist that he has to say an amount. Again, table chimes in...no he doesn't...he's putting you all in. Finally, the dealer tells the guy that maniac first said he puts you all in, it doesn't matter what he says after that...he doesn't have to say an amount because he's putting you all in...it matters what he says first. (I kinda screwed that up in the AA/KK hand when I wanted to raise to $30, but said 'make it $30 more', so I had to match his raise and add $30...I couldn't say 'well, I meant...'.) So decoy guy isn't happy even thou he's totally in the wrong and the WHOLE table knows it. Decoy guy calls, maniac has a monster, GG decoy...busto. Luckily, he rebuys. I will need him for this next hand.

KQo in LP, couple limpers, I limp. Flop is K-Q-9 with two clubs. Decoy guy bets $15, one caller. I was going to raise to 30 when decoy guy made his bet, but then the second guy called. I have $58 left. My thoughts went like this...there's probably around $38 in the pot now. A raise to 30 now isn't even pot size. $45? I only have $58 left. What's the point of betting 45 if it only leaves me with $13 and I'm not rebuying. Fuck it, then. I should just go all in. Ok, sounds good. I announce I'm all-in. And as soon as I do, I think I made a mistake. People like playing J-10. Let's hope this isn't one of those times. I think there was one more limper left to act and he folds. Decoy guy thinks about it for a while. OK, cool. I don't think he has J10 then, or a set. He finally calls. Other guy folds. Cool. I might be good. I flip up my 2 pair, he flips up his two clubs for the flush draw. I don't even think he had a pair. He gets no help and I double up (plus some).

It closes in on 4:00 and I have to go. I leave with $133, so I am down $127 on the day. I lost over $140 on the AA/KK hand, so outside that, I would have ended up. I know...stop being result oriented. Can't help it. The AA/KK hand from today and the 88/KK hand from Saturday sealed my losing weekend. Those two hands turn the other way and it's a great weekend. I cash out and call the GF on the celly. Yet another losing weekend at Seneca, although I had more fun than last time (even though I lost more this time). I remember to go to Morrie's in the casino and pick up a Fried Chicken wrap for lunch for tomorrow (forgot last time). Hop in my car and I'm off to Pittsburgh.

I took a lot of notes so I could hopefully get some feedback from you guys. I probably won't take as many notes next time because it does take me out of the game a little.

So, what are my thoughts on NL live for the first time? I did enjoy it. I feel good knowing that I can play both Limit and NL...maybe not the best way, but I feel comfortable playing both and believe I can win at both. Maybe not huge amounts of money, but as long as I can win a little, I'm happy. I just enjoy playing poker. I was worried about being totally run over because of my weak/tight image. But, as others have mentioned, 1/2 live does somewhat play like .05/.10 that I have seen online. I don't know if too many people were paying attention to me. Sure, there were a couple here and there...a couple comments when I would unexpectedly move all in or raise big on how I hardly was playing a hand. But a lot of the time, they would call anyway. From what I could tell, I can play my tight little game and I should make money. With some adjustments, I know I can make money.

At a couple points, I was a little bored. Being so tight and not getting cards, there were long stretches where I didn't play a hand. At least in Limit, if you get bored, you can throw $3 in the pot with just about any two cards and see what happens. I'm a lot less worried limping in from EP with crap in Limit than I am in NL. Seems PFR are more numerous in NL and of course, it's easier to get in trouble in NL.

The money concerned me a bit. I agree with what BL mentioned in this thread...if I'm figuring out how much money to take for a weekend of poker, I pretty much figure $150 x 3 for three sessions of 3/6 Limit (Fri, Sat, Sun). And I highly doubt I would ever lose three whole 'buyins' at limit...I would leave before that happened. But if I'm bringing money for NL, I feel I would need much more because your stack is almost always at risk. For example, those two killer hands I had. The set of eights I had...played it perfectly against the perfect player and still lost. There's one buyin. And the KK vs AA hand. I don't think too many of us are going to lay down KK preflop, especially against the table maniac (as opposed to the tight guy at the table). GG me...there's another buyin.

So what are we talking? Three buyins per day to be safe? $900 for a weekend? I don't have that kind of money. Of course, I don't expect to lose three buyins a day. But it could easily happen. And I don't want to play NL for 5 minutes, get cooled, and be done for the day. So I think my poker trips will start at NL, but if things don't go well, I'll have to switch to Limit just so I can play for a longer period of time. I don't have an 'offline' bankroll. I save up some money here and there and hit the casino. It's money I can lose, but don't want to (it's not the mortgage money or anything like that). I suppose you could call it 'entertainment' money.

[mewsiclovr]

Nice report. One comment - the JT hand, where you made a flush... Bet more on the turn, push the river.

[bl]

“KQo in LP, I limp with several others. Flop is Q-K-A and there's a bet of $5 to me. I raise to $15 and the original bettor is the only caller. Turn is a ten...didn't want to see that. It goes check check. River is a harmless looking three. He bets $15. I start to think. No flush draw. I'm really only worried about a jack. No preflop raise, so probably no AK or AQ. Maybe A3 or A10. Fuck it...I call. He flips over JQ. I guess even thou I raised, staying with a gutshot and bottom pair is good enough for you.”

Snickers – I’m glad you typed out what you were thinking on the river here. I’d say you are good 10% of the time if your lucky. (BTW that’s the 10% bluff rule from Harrington). Think of it from his perspective, he gets raised on the flop so he knows he’s in trouble. He hit’s his miricacle card on the turn and checks to you assuming you’ll bet it. River he knows he needs to bet but doesn’t want to force you out with a two pair hand (which is exactly what you had) so he bets $15 into a $40ish pot? That just screams strength. With only 50BB you can’t make those calls. If anything you should have popped him more on the flop ($20) so he can’t call. If he does shut it down when the board hates you. (I thought he’d turn over AJ)


“9-10 of diamonds one off the button and I limp. Flop is 9-x-K w/two diamonds. Checked to me and I bet $10. One caller. Get my flush on the turn, bet ten, get raised to 20. My flush no good? I call.”

In my best fatherly, understanding voice… what exactly were you hoping for playing T9d? a flush or straight right? I’m not saying it’s the nuts but the dude raised you after you hit your hand. Get your money in there…He’s calling with a big pair plus the Ad and your making $$$$$$$.


“You know at the very least, one of us has KK...good chance of AA the way the hand is playing out. He finally folds, I call the all-in and maniac flips over AA.”

Again you talk us through your thought process then go against it. Do you think he’s re-re-re raising with JJ? QQ? Trust me I HATE folding KK preflop I think it was Cloutier who said the third raise is almost always AA. Especially in a cash game. This guy would have to be a serious maniac for me to insta call here. I love your re-raise but in my opinion he basically said to you “I know you have a monster, mine is bigger”.

“KQo in LP, couple limpers, I limp. Flop is K-Q-9 with two clubs. Decoy guy bets $15, one caller. I was going to raise to 30 when decoy guy made his bet, but then the second guy called. I have $58 left. My thoughts went like this...there's probably around $38 in the pot now. A raise to 30 now isn't even pot size. $45? I only have $58 left. What's the point of betting 45 if it only leaves me with $13 and I'm not rebuying. Fuck it, then. I should just go all in.”

You thought this through, pulled the trigger and got rewarded. Now let me ask you. If this was the first hand of the day would you play it the same? Think about that. In NL you need to punish your opponents. You played this great because you were semi-tilting and didn’t care anymore. In other words you had no fear. You must be fearless all the time!

[johnny]

Great trip report. Sounds like the tables were a little nuts but still not as bad as I would expect. I really wish those cards would have fallen the other way for you on those 2 hands. The NL table I sat at there was just nuts with people pushing and rebuying. One guy had an enormous stack of chips. That was a 3 am though. I gotta say that I'd miss some of those characters who frequent the limit tables. Angry-man is just too much fun to watch. Imagine him at the NL table. Canadian Troy too. I wonder if we could push him off a draw at NL? Mr. WSOP would have to back up his hat by making some decisions that cost more than $2. But as you've started to do I'm sure we'll find a bunch of new characters.

When Spammy and I stayed in Niagara on our first trip we stayed at the Seneca Niagara hotel. This was last year when we were just getting into poker. We went up to Fallsview for the big Blackjack tournament came back to Seneca for the night so the trip wasn't about poker. The rooms are just outstanding though. They are enourmous. Completely huge. Comfortable beds, chairs, desk, couch. The entry hallway has got to be 1/3 the size of the MicroTel room. There are 2 rooms for the bathroom, one with the commode and a sink and mirror and another with sinks and a big mirror and the shower. It's all marble tiled. The shower is a walk-in with glass walls that you can easily fit 3 or 4 waitresses from the poker room in. I've never gotten a price under $135 though. Sometimes they say less but by the time you add in taxes or whatever it's $135.

I took your advice and took off some from paid poker the first night. I played some free tourneys and took 1st place in a 200 person MTT super sat, and then advanced in the next sat with several hundred people so I get to play for a trip to Vegas. Silly but it's fun. Won a blackjack sat too.

Gunna be fun to play up there in the summer. I imagine there are some fishy tourists then and right now were seeing more of the "real" poker players.

[snickers99]

Angry-man is just too much fun to watch. Imagine him at the NL table.

I totally forgot! Angry Man (AM) WAS at one of my tables!! Apparently, it's not just the Limit players who hate him. Both me and the other note-taking guy were trying to bust him, but it was somebody else who did the job. AM raises preflop (maybe UTG), one or two callers. I forget the flop, but it had a three in it. AM is first to act and goes all in...like $65 into a maybe $20 pot. Guy in LP calls and flips over pocket threes. AM gets no help and is out the door. Guy who won says 'did you hear what he said to me when he left?'. Something like how can you play shit like that and hit the flop? OMG!!! Good stuff.

Apparently, note-taking guy and AM have some history because note-taking guy mentioned that he really wanted to bust him. Well, maybe not history as in bad blood...but he knew AM sucked. Me, I just hate the guy and want his money. Some others at the table mentioned playing against him as well. Someone guessed he has a high paying job because he has never seen AM win.

BTW, AM is this guy who thinks it is his right to win any pot he is in and he just goes crazy when he doesn't win. He'll mention something like 'how can you play crap like KQs' and the very next hand, he plays like Q3o UTG and is shocked he doesn't win. He's shock and pissed when he has AK and doesn't win. Pounds his fist on the table...mucks his cards with great force. I've played or seen this guy almost everytime I go up there and he still hasn't learned. Thank goodness for that!

Depending on the Pens playoff schedule, I'm going to try to get up there again next month. One more night at the Microtel and I get a free night next time!

[johnny]

Oh, that's great! That last time we were up there he sat right next to me and I saw his cards as he was waving his hands around in anger. The flop was either AQx or KQx or something, but either the A or the K also made it there by the river. I think he might of raised pre-flop. And you're right, it's like he picks his hand regardless of his cards and it's his right to win it. He go t so pissed he lost that hand and he had Q2. He's so mad and all you can say to him is "Man, that's a tough beat." I love it when he says "I haven't won in like 5 hands!" And if he does muck his cards he's pissed that he got cards bad enough to muck. One would almost think he's roleplaying. Maybe he's in local theater and he's using the money and opportunity to improve his acting like an asshole.

[sfustsh]

9-10 of diamonds one off the button and I limp. Flop is 9-x-K w/two diamonds. Checked to me and I bet $10. One caller. Get my flush on the turn, bet ten, get raised to 20. My flush no good? I call. River pairs the board, he bets $15, I call and he flips over a king for TP...my hand is good.

What's your stack? Are you first in the pot? I would consider raising here if first in deep stacked.

I might put in a small reraise on the turn, to juice the pot. I'm not particularly worried about the board pairing, either, I'm getting it in.

If it's flush < flush then that's just a cooler.

[ugignadl]

9-10 of diamonds one off the button and I limp. Flop is 9-x-K w/two diamonds. Checked to me and I bet $10. One caller. Get my flush on the turn, bet ten, get raised to 20. My flush no good? I call. River pairs the board, he bets $15, I call and he flips over a king for TP...my hand is good.

Just FTR, in case you (Snicks) find it interesting, here is my line on that hand. First, I raise preflop. Online I like a limp, but live you are going to get as many if not more callers with raising as opposed to limping. So raise. In position, hopefully with a button fold, and a decent suited connector. The flop is amazing for you. You have a pair, and a flush draw, with possible runners for a straight draw. I bet the flop just like you, but the difference is the pot is so large by now, you can almost safely get your whole stack in (and still have customers). If not then with the call its an easy push on the turn. Without the PF raise you can still improve, by pushing over his turn raise (don't let a lone draw) or by at the very least pushing the river. If you hit on the flop when holding , would you falter at raising? This is the equivalent, IMO.

I think, perhaps, that you are not playing very badly, just not getting enough value to have a good enough rise in that damn bumpy curve. Post some more hands in the NL forums damn you .

[snickers99]

Post some more hands in the NL forums damn you .

I don't play much online, but I will try to post more hands. BTW, posted one there tonight.

Again, thanks for the input everybody.

Thought of one more Niagara story. I was quite proud of myself for sitting at a NL table for the entire weekend. I was thinking about that as I was driving home. There's a toll road I have to take in NY state and as I was getting close to the toll (which was $2.60), I thought about handing the toll collector $2. When he asks for more, I was going to say "how much more is it to me?" and when he says 60 cents, I was going to say "I fold" and drive off. Made me laugh at the time.

[ugignadl]

Post some more hands in the NL forums damn you .

I don't play much online, but I will try to post more hands. BTW, posted one there tonight.

Again, thanks for the input everybody.

Thought of one more Niagara story. I was quite proud of myself for sitting at a NL table for the entire weekend. I was thinking about that as I was driving home. There's a toll road I have to take in NY state and as I was getting close to the toll (which was $2.60), I thought about handing the toll collector $2. When he asks for more, I was going to say "how much more is it to me?" and when he says 60 cents, I was going to say "I fold" and drive off. Made me laugh at the time.

I lolled .