NH fuckin genius, was I asking for it?

[mervhage]

***** Hand History for Game 3372990908 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:19211409 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Sunday, January 15, 01:48:18 EDT 2006
Table Table 67112 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Rolo427 ( $810 )
Seat 2: manny1dot8T ( $800 )
Seat 4: blin7772003 ( $1100 )
Seat 5: jrh1823 ( $800 )
Seat 8: ana_ng ( $660 )
Seat 9: harryjack111 ( $730 )
Seat 10: LocalH45 ( $855 )
Seat 7: Revolver_O ( $770 )
Seat 3: JRaven ( $800 )
Seat 6: mervhage ( $675 )
Trny:19211409 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mervhage [ ]
manny1dot8T raises [30].
JRaven calls [30].
blin7772003 folds.
jrh1823 folds.
mervhage raises [120].
Revolver_O folds.
ana_ng folds.
harryjack111 folds.
LocalH45 folds.
Rolo427 folds.
manny1dot8T calls [90].
JRaven folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
manny1dot8T checks.
mervhage is all-In [555]
manny1dot8T calls [555].
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
manny1dot8T shows [ , ] a flush, king high.
mervhage shows [ , ] two pairs, kings and queens.
manny1dot8T wins 1405 chips from the main pot with a flush, king high.
mervhage finished in tenth place.
mervhage has left the table.

I usually don't reraise with a hand like KQs, but I'm not particularly sure what a min raise UTG is supposed to mean and I do like my hand, so a pf reraise should let me know where I stand. If he comes back over the top, I can dump it considering I'll be most likely be up against a dominating hand. Maybe I just thought too much about it?

[bobcorn]

I play KQs as a drawing hand early on so I could see flat calling UTG's raise or folding but i'm definitely not reraising. If he's LAG I might reraise w/ AK and AQ though.

[poormanbilly]

I don't see anything wrong with this. You have to win your chips somehow.

[scottie_g]

Most of the time, I fold this hand preflop. It's a trap hand, and not worth playing at this stage in the tourney. Given that you did play it, here's my thought's on the preflop raise.

It's still early in the tournament, so I am looking not to get trapped with this hand. On the flop, I am looking for a flush, a diamond draw, or 2 pair. Like bobcorn said, KQs is a drawing hand more than anything else. Therefore, a smooth call is good so you can invite others into the pot with your draw.

On the plus side of your preflop raise, it gives you position on the hand... otherwise known as "stealing the button." The late position and the button folded, so you are now "on the button." This is the reasoning for raising with drawing hands in LP. Now that you are "on the button," I like the hand a lot more.

On the flop, you played it fine. He's just a donk and there's nothing you can about that.

[joiny]

The straight flush draws, they are invincible!

[scotty1139]

Honestly Merv, I think you played it well. We could make an argument for flat calling in MP with your hand, but your reasoning about finding out where you stand/taking the lead is certainly solid.

scottie_g, this hand has too much potential to make tpgk or hit big draws to fold it preflop. Had he simply called and let more hands in, the drawing potential is huge. The "trap factor" that is a big concern in EP isn't so much an issue from MP/lateMP, and it's easy to fold to large reraises or limp-reraises. In general, I would assert that the more confident you are in postflop play, the more you should play this hand.

[poormanbilly]

He's just a donk and there's nothing you can about that.

I think we are really starting to loosen the donk stardards a little too much.

[scottie_g]

He's just a donk and there's nothing you can about that.

I think we are really starting to loosen the donk stardards a little too much.

There's 270 in the pot, Merv bets 555. Yes, Villian has a str8 flush draw.. but calling off all your chips in this situation is a DONKEY move.

[zardnok]

I think post-flop you played it perfectly. Isolate and try to take the pot down immediately.

Pre-flop, I can see the merits of playing it both ways really. Considering K-Qsuited is such a great drawing hand combined with the how early in the tourney it is, I would probably cold-call and see the flop before I decided how to play the hand. If you let others into hand, so be it! Maybe you hit the flush or straight and have a lot of folks to pay you off.

[poormanbilly]

He's just a donk and there's nothing you can about that.

I think we are really starting to loosen the donk stardards a little too much.

There's 270 in the pot, Merv bets 555. Yes, Villian has a str8 flush draw.. but calling off all your chips in this situation is a DONKEY move.

Shit, at a $10 SnG, I'd put in that money to try and catch the just out of spite. The "Donkey" had a 49.50% chance to win after that flop. What is donkey about making the right call based on the odds?

[Dday44]

Hi!

First off, I would not even bother with this hand early in the tourny- classic trap hand- yes, you are reaising for position, but pot is not yet worth getting involved.

On that flop, you were almost an exact coinflip to win by river against his hand- his odds of winning were 49.49% on the flop and he was getting better than that by far by calling- not a donk move by any means- and even more so than Merv's hand, I wouldn't get involved in his hand preflop at that position and stage of the tourny- think you both played poor hands poorly.

The absolute best way to get more high finishes is to get as few low finishes(9-10th) as possible and playing hands like KQ and AQ early in the tourny is a sure way to insure that you will get more than your fair share of low finishes.


NL sngs are not games of drawing hands

Hope above confuses the issue even more.

All the best, Dave

[barrin6]

I think both players played it right. Considering it's an 10+1 tourney, I go all in straightopenflush anyday. Too many outs to fold that hand.

[bigdil511]

Hi!

First off, I would not even bother with this hand early in the tourny- classic trap hand- yes, you are reaising for position, but pot is not yet worth getting involved.

On that flop, you were almost an exact coinflip to win by river against his hand- his odds of winning were 49.49% on the flop and he was getting better than that by far by calling- not a donk move by any means- and even more so than Merv's hand, I wouldn't get involved in his hand preflop at that position and stage of the tourny- think you both played poor hands poorly.

The absolute best way to get more high finishes is to get as few low finishes(9-10th) as possible and playing hands like KQ and AQ early in the tourny is a sure way to insure that you will get more than your fair share of low finishes.


NL sngs are not games of drawing hands

Hope above confuses the issue even more.

All the best, Dave

Some good solid advice here, I think there is a lot of potential to trap yourself with these hands early on, this is a mistake that a lot of low limit players make is getting involved with too many hands, too early in the tournament (not that I am high stakes just speaking in generalities, this was a piece of advice that a big tourny player gave to me once).

[mervhage]

So we've established that my reraise preflop was of poor choice, but no one mentioned that his call was more so horrendous, no? Perhaps this alone labels him a donkey. Or am I just being a whiny bitch b/c he outdrew me?

I don't fault him on the flop. I myself have made the same move with the identical hand and situation. Naturally for me, I busted out, but what the hell.

[blatman25]

I read somewhere the JTs is a deceptively powerful hand. I don't remember where.

The reason being, every straight it makes is the nuts, and you have potential for a flush and a straight flush.

I'm not saying it was a GOOD call, but I call a lot more often with JTs since I read that. Would I have called your raise here? Nope.