Tight Poker

[biggle10]

UTG calls. UTG+1 calls. 1 fold. MP calls. Hero is CO with

Hero calls. Button folds. SB folds. BB(LAG) raises. Everyone calls.

Flop:

BB bets. 3 calls to me. Hero calls.

Turn:

BB bets. UTG calls. 2 folds. Hero raises.

[cavman]

looks like this hand is pretty dependent on your read of the BB. i think you should've raised on the flop against most opponents.

[goofyballer]

I don't mind his flat call. Raising doesn't accomplish much; none of the callers are going to fold, and there are a lot of possible draws on board. Raising on the flop juices the pot and gives those draws better odds on the turn. By waiting for a safe turn card and then raising, you're punishing drawing hands a lot harder than you would by making them put two bets in on the flop (when their equity is a lot higher) and just one on the turn.

Are you planning on checking behind on the river? I think I am.

[cavman]

i'm not raising to punish drawing hands, i'm raising to find out where i am. there really aren't any possible draws, other than an inside str (i doubt anyone has 58 or 45). also, even aggressive players usually have a big hand when raising out of the BB preflop. so i say raise the flop to find out if he has an overpair. raising the turn is putting a lot of your money in the pot, while a big pair is a likely holding of the villain.

[biggle10]

Let me clarify. BB is very LAG. UTG is unknown.

The questions that I really had were preflop and flop.

Turn is standard for me. Yes the plan is check behind on river UI.

[cavman]

what do you put everyone on here then? i think the raise by the BB (preflop) shows a big hand, even if he is very LAG, but you are ahead of AK/AQ. UTG seems kinda loose and may not be too strong, but i don't know how he had been playing.

if you are confident that you are ahead, then go ahead and wait until the turn to raise, but i would be more concerned about being beat on the flop.

also, even though there aren't draws, there are 12 overs that you don't want to see. raising the flop won't make them fold, but it will charge them more.

[cavman]

also, if you raise on the turn and a blank falls, why wouldn't you bet the river. i'm not saying i'd play the hand that way, but wouldn't you raise the turn and bet the river for the same reason?

[biggle10]

also, if you raise on the turn and a blank falls, why wouldn't you bet the river. i'm not saying i'd play the hand that way, but wouldn't you raise the turn and bet the river for the same reason?

If my turn raise is called its very likely I'm behind to better hand. Raising the turn and checking behind costs me the exact same as calling both the turn and river but I get the added benefit of some fold equity and some more bets in the pot when I improve on the river.

For those who are curious: BB called. UTG called.

River came 4c. BB checks. UTG checks. Hero checks.
BB shows . BB shows . MHING.

[goofyballer]

Raising the turn and checking behind costs me the exact same as calling both the turn and river but I get the added benefit of some fold equity and some more bets in the pot when I improve on the river.

You also extract an extra bet out of draws that you wouldn't otherwise get (since they'd fold UI on the river).

Nice hand.

[cavman]

sounds like you played it perfectly with correct reads. I guess i was off on my read, but it's been a while since I played in those games. it's too bad the UTG 58o was rewarded.

[biggle10]

sounds like you played it perfectly with correct reads. I guess i was off on my read, but it's been a while since I played in those games. it's too bad the UTG 58o was rewarded.

Its ok, I try not to be results oriented though everyone is guilty of it at times.

[alanpsych]

It's really too bad that the LAG is on your left, instead of your right. Otherwise, you could make it 2 bets to the rest of the field, and you might be able to persuade 85o to fold. I tend to think raising the flop, as well, to gain info, but after everyone calls, you don't really know much more, except that Mr. LAG likely doesn't have much (assuming he's not a slowplayer), although you usually assume tpgk is good enough vs. such a player anyway.

I don't mind how you played it. It's one of those spots where you know you're ahead most of the time, but you also know you're going to get beat most of the time by the river, as well, but it's still profitable for you to play even winning <50%. There are a lot of bad cards, and you don't know which ones they are, since players will hang on with any piece of the flop (or overcards, or gutshot, etc.).

[mervhage]

I'm not opposed to how you played it, this is in accordance with SSH, where you're facing multiple opponents and rather than raising the flop, wait until the turn to double it. The specific example in the book gives you KK and facing several opponents on a similar rag flop.

[biggle10]

My main concern is a slow played set with all those overcalls in front of me. I was waiting to see if anyone came alive on the turn. If they did, I can get away cheaper.

[mervhage]

My main concern is a slow played set with all those overcalls in front of me. I was waiting to see if anyone came alive on the turn. If they did, I can get away cheaper.

So do you fold to a check-raise on the turn, is that the general plan?

I like the check on the river myself, especially those fuckers that try to check raise the river, trying to be slick and shit.

Biggle, who the hell is that dude in your Avatar?