Lost $138 on a NL 50 hand

[puckhead23]

This happened on Pacific Poker last night. Any suggestions?

Hero (UTG) dealt 88 - Calls $1
Villain (UTG+1) Calls
Button Calls
SB calls
BB Raises $1 to $2
Everyone calls; 5 to the flop; $10 in the pot

FLOP:

Everyone checks (Flopped top set on rainbow board; don't want to lose anyone yet)

TURN:

I bet $2
Villain Raises to $9
I reraise to $30
Villain raises all-in (he had me covered)
Hero Calls

RIVER a blank

Villain showed (He flopped the straight)

Anyone think I should regret calling all in with my set on this board? I'm still sick.

[poormanbilly]

It's been said before, but the cardinal rule is don't lose all your money in an unraised pot (The pot sweetner doesn't really count as a raise). As soon as I saw that flop and knew you lost, I called 76. It's happened to me too many times to count. I'm not a big fan of checking on the flop either. There are plenty of cards that could fall to beat you if you aren't already beat.

[puckhead23]

I guess here is my specific question about this hand: Would you have folded the set of 8s to the all-in raise? In my mind, even if I was way behind and he had the straight (which I wasn't ready to concede), I still had outs to a boat/quads. This was my worse case scenario. Any other scenario and I'm way ahead.

This was a fairly solid player (nothing spectacular, but I hadn't seen him act like a jackass either). Semi tight and fairly aggressive. I wasn't worried about JJ at all; he would have almost certainly raised preflop. I thought 55 and 44 were as likely as the 76s.

[goofyballer]

While you flopped top set on a rainbow flop, you also flopped top set on a very coordinated flop. There's 8 cards that could come on the turn that would leave you shitting your pants. Try to get more money in on the flop in this situation (you still have an excellent chance of boating up with two cards to come, if you're behind) rather than the turn.

[caffiend]

The cardinal rule is that no limit posts go in the no-limit section.

Am I the only one that thinks the section names need to be redone a bit? It is a bit confusing having two sections titled Small Stakes Texas Hold'em.

[Edit Scotty: Post Moved]

[biggle10]

Am I the only one that thinks the section names need to be redone a bit? It is a bit confusing having two sections titled Small Stakes Texas Hold'em.

[Edit Scotty: Post Moved]

I concur.

[mervhage]

Am I the only one that thinks the section names need to be redone a bit? It is a bit confusing having two sections titled Small Stakes Texas Hold'em.

[Edit Scotty: Post Moved]

I concur.

They're under two different section names, I didn't find it all that confusing.

[caffiend]

It isn't that the front page is confusing, it's that the pages under the section are. I often look back at the top of the page to see which section I'm in. Of course, they both say exactly the same thing.

Confusing may be a bit strong, it's more inconvient than anything. If you turn around to do something else midway through reading it you can't just glance at the screen to see which section you're in. I know it sounds stupid, but some portion of misplaced posts is probably due to people answering phones, getting seated by the waiting list, etc in between forum actions. When you come back and glance at the top of the section it's easy to assume you're in the one you read most often, when in fact you're in the other one.

I know I went in and out of the limit section a couple times looking at this thread. I looked at the top and saw "Party Poker Strategy Guide Forum Forum Index -> Small Stakes Texas Hold'em" and assumed I was mistakenly in the NL/PL section.

[poormanbilly]

I guess here is my specific question about this hand: Would you have folded the set of 8s to the all-in raise?

It's hard to say now that we know how it turns out. Six months ago, I make that call for sure. Today, I doubt I do.

Here's a quote from Super System 2 page 550.
"In no-limit play, you must be very careful you don't lose all your chips in an unraised pot, unless you have the nuts at the point you go all-in."

[blatman25]

It's been said before, but the cardinal rule is don't lose all your money in an unraised pot.

Ok, apparently I need to read Super System 2 again. Damn, that's a good way of thinking about it.

[puckhead23]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for your responses. Also, I didn't mean to put this in the wrong place. I just need to get my head out of my ass and put posts where they belong.

Goofy: I have a question for you. I see your point about getting my money in on the flop because of the potential nightmare looming on 4th street. Since the villain flopped his str8, the betting would certainly go the same way. Would you have went all the way here?

I know Billy's point of not going broke in an unraised pot, and if I had 2 pair I would never have been in this situation. If I was put to this decision on the flop and not the turn, I have about a 35% chance of filling up by the river, not to mention the possibility I'm way ahead of a lesser set.

I think what I'm saying is by taking the action you recommend, I would have called the all-in with more confidence than I did. Am I wrong to think this way?

[goofyballer]

I'm not sure what your last sentence means, but yeah, I'd be willing to put it all in on the flop. There's a huge chance you have villain crushed and, if villain has the one hand you're losing to, you have a billion outs to beat him. On the turn it gets a little scarier.

[puckhead23]

Goofy, you had said to get more money in on the flop, but I wasn't sure if you were in favor of getting it all in on the flop. Since I had a ton of outs and an extra street to make my boat, I should even be more willing to call all in on the flop than I was to call it on the turn.

You didn't say you'd go all in on the flop, and I wanted to be clear. This was a pretty expensive tuition bill I paid and I'd hate to learn the wrong thing from this class. Thanks for your help!!!!

[cavman]

a few comments:

bet flop- i wouldn't necessarily be worried about someone having a 6 or 7, but it is gonna kill the action if one of those cards drop. basically, you gotta get money in now, because if a 6 or 7 hits, you won't get action unless someone has straight.

on turn- i would've just called turn. once you raised and he came over the top, you should fold. after you raise, IMO, the over-the-top push looks a lot like 67, and this hand is very likely given the action. by calling, you draw to a boat anyway, but don't lose all your money to a hand that beats yours, and is a likely holding for him.

forgot to mention, this hand is very read depending, but since you said he is solid, you're probably looking at the straight.

[poormanbilly]

I'd be willing to put it all in on the flop.

Why? There is $10 in the pot and only $2 of it is yours. How is risking $136 to win $10 +EV? There were four people in the hand against you that could have flopped the nuts. If there isn't a straight or flush possiblity on the flop, I run with it too, otherwise, why am I risking my whole stack?