I was like FUCK!!

[NutzReelBig]

PokerStars Game #6466238728: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/09/29 - 20:12:21 (ET)
Table 'Arethusa' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: w_berg ($12.75 in chips)
Seat 2: G-Weaver35 ($48.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Rendall 11 ($23.90 in chips)
Seat 4: oliverlat ($31.45 in chips)
Seat 5: soldatti ($24.30 in chips)
G-Weaver35: posts small blind $0.10
Rendall 11: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to G-Weaver35 [7d 8d]
oliverlat: raises $0.50 to $0.75
soldatti: folds
w_berg: calls $0.75
G-Weaver35: calls $0.65
Rendall 11: folds
*** FLOP *** [2d Tc 9h]
G-Weaver35: checks
oliverlat: bets $1
w_berg: calls $1
G-Weaver35: calls $1
*** TURN *** [2d Tc 9h] [6d]
G-Weaver35: checks
oliverlat: bets $4
w_berg: folds
G-Weaver35: raises $7.50 to $11.50
dc0806 joins the table at seat #6
oliverlat: raises $18.20 to $29.70 and is all-in
G-Weaver35: calls $18.20
*** RIVER *** [2d Tc 9h 6d] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
G-Weaver35: shows [7d 8d] (a flush, Eight high)
oliverlat: shows [Qd Jd] (a flush, Queen high)
oliverlat collected $62.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $64.90 | Rake $2
Board [2d Tc 9h 6d 4d]
Seat 1: w_berg (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: G-Weaver35 (small blind) showed [7d 8d] and lost with a flush, Eight high
Seat 3: Rendall 11 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: oliverlat showed [Qd Jd] and won ($62.90) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 5: soldatti folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[mervhage]

Oh man, no justice in this fucking game sometimes.

[sfustsh]

I wouldn't put your villain completely at fault on this hand.

If he felt his Q high flush was good, and his OESD was good (which is reasonable) then he's got 9 flush outs + 8 straight outs for 17 outs! I think his push is nearly even EV since his push has none - little FE, which just balances out his low draw potential.

That is a REALLY loose call for me. I fold that near 100% of the time preflop. It tends to drag you into a losing situation. Even though it's 5 handed, I still feel like it's a drag down hand. The same is true for like AJ or A2. It tends to force you to call when you know you really don't want to. And most importantly, you have bad position the rest of the hand.

This is a suckout, but only barely a 2:1 suckout.

However, you played this perfectly, except for the preflop call. You pushed exactly when you should have on the turn when the FD presented itself.

I think both you and villain were somewhat justified but you played this by the book. NH and you'll win that most of the time, so don't let it change your play!

[mirage]

If he felt his Q high flush was good, and his OESD was good (which is reasonable) then he's got 9 flush outs + 8 straight outs for 17 outs!

It's actually 15 outs since 2 of them are redundant, but yeah he was a little over 2:1 dog.

I had a similar hand a few days ago when I in the BB checked into a flopped nut straight. I get reraised, so I push all-in and get called by some moron who hits a backdoor flush.

[NutzReelBig]

I put him on a over pair , really had me lik eFUCK!!!!

[neverthink]

Unlucky, that's all man. God knows what they have half of the time.

[nlman]

He had excellent odds. I wouldn't be so disappointed about losing the pot where you are only about 60% favorite. After you lose enough hands to 2-outers, runner runner straights and backdoor flushes, you'll stop paying attention to losses like the one above.
My latest gem is losing AAs to... a 2-pair caught on the TURN and RIVER while betting the pot every time. I don't think he even had a runner runner straight draw when he called the flop bet...

The same is true for like AJ or A2. It tends to force you to call when you know you really don't want to.

Actually, I play full ring and I find AJs to be a very good hand. You are aiming at: nut flush, nut straight, 2 pairs, or J-high flop. You also win against the donks who think that a pair of aces with 5 kicker is good enough to keep raising with (also - those who like to bluff too much). Call those to the river and win their money. In a limped pot you'll rarely see a higher kicker, anyways.

AJ offsuit is also playable when you have the position and it is great for blindstealing.

A2s is yet another great hand, but you need to know when to fold it. With A2s you are aiming for a nut flush or 2 pairs. You can also get straight or a pair of aces, but you have to be really careful with those and you have to know when to fold those.

And most importantly, you have bad position the rest of the hand.

My thoughts exactly. If you want to play low suited connectors so badly, at least play them when you have the position.

[NutzReelBig]

yeah i was disappointed but i put him on a different hand like an over pair thats why i wasnt expecting it, i know he had outs and im not argueing his call i was just expecting to win that

[sfustsh]

The same is true for like AJ or A2. It tends to force you to call when you know you really don't want to.

Actually, I play full ring and I find AJs to be a very good hand. You are aiming at: nut flush, nut straight, 2 pairs, or J-high flop. You also win against the donks who think that a pair of aces with 5 kicker is good enough to keep raising with (also - those who like to bluff too much). Call those to the river and win their money. In a limped pot you'll rarely see a higher kicker, anyways.

AJ offsuit is also playable when you have the position and it is great for blindstealing.

A2s is yet another great hand, but you need to know when to fold it. With A2s you are aiming for a nut flush or 2 pairs. You can also get straight or a pair of aces, but you have to be really careful with those and you have to know when to fold those.

If you're going for the nut flush, what's the difference between AJ and Axs? Though I guess you're right, AJ isn't 'that' bad, and you can be reasonably sure you have the best hand with an A on the board. With A2 though I really can't find as much as you to be excited about. The straight happens so rarely because you can never have an OESD with A2 and any A on the board has to put you against a rock.

Ace play is important, because it feels like you're always entitled to limp. In full ring, I only generally limp A2 or A9+ because you have 'got' to be sure you have the best kicker (A2 because though rare, the straights are nearly invisible). On the button I raise the same range and call any ace unlimped. The problem with aces is that on lower limits usually all the aces on the table go to the flop, so you have to know which ones you beat.

As for suited connectors, they are AWFUL from first position. You have to check almost all flops and just beg to bet into. I LOVE them near the button though, they make huge money for me. In general, I play all suited connectors the same regardless of rank. If there is a 2 flush on the board you tread cautiously with low cards, I look for the straight first and the runner runner flush next. That way you are much more likely to have the best flush, and not hang yourself.

[nlman]

If you're going for the nut flush, what's the difference between AJ and Axs? Though I guess you're right, AJ isn't 'that' bad, and you can be reasonably sure you have the best hand with an A on the board. With A2 though I really can't find as much as you to be excited about. The straight happens so rarely because you can never have an OESD with A2 and any A on the board has to put you against a rock.

The difference between AJ and Axs is that I find playing only 5% of the hands is boring . Also, if you play too little, people will just fold whenever you do play and you won't ever win anything and eventually your stack will get eaten by the rack and the blinds.

Now - what do I find so great about A2s? Well, it is the worst Axs pair to play, but it still pays off. I am assuming that I don't need to explain stacking those who like suited connectors with the nut flushes (especially - if they play them OOP )

I am assuming that you are wondering how is 5% chance to hit 2 pairs with A2 any different than, say 5% chance to hit 2-pairs with ANY 2 cards? Well, if you hit 2 pairs with a random non-ace hand, then
1) they won't be nut 2 pairs. Yes, A2 won't be the nut 2-pair either, so you have to keep that in mind, but unlike the lower 2-pairs it won't become useless as soon as the board pairs and you'll always win against the 2 pairs made with connectors.
2) people won't give you action. Who will give you action if you hit 78 2-pair when 278 flops? Maybe 99 or TT, but they'll usually stop betting as soon as they see J+. 9T might be calling for their outs (and sometimes they WILL hit those). 9x may also stick around, but usually they'll fold before the pot gets too big. Now - compare that to hitting A2 on 27A flop. Everyone and their momma plays aces and most people think that hitting their ace will win the pot. Yes, in a limped pot A7, 22 and 77 will beat you, but I am willing to put some money behind the 5-th best hand, considering the fact that some of the hands that beat you are very unlikely (like 22 and especially - AA).

A2 because though rare, the straights are nearly invisible.

Oh, those are QUITE visible. How can you NOT notice 345? I also don't really like A2 straights because I know I can't put my whole stack behing those. Too many people like to play 67s and I don't feel like making them rich. I like A3 and A4 straights though - if you hit those, chances are you do have the nut straight.

On the button I raise the same range and call any ace unlimped. The problem with aces is that on lower limits usually all the aces on the table go to the flop, so you have to know which ones you beat.

This is exactly what I want them to do when I limp with A2s You'll lose the BB amount nearly 90% of the time, but you can win huge pots with nut flushes and you'll win decent pots when you do hit your 2 pairs. A2 is very easy to fold, so you aren't likely to lose a lot to better kickers.

[sfustsh]

I don't generally play suited connectors for two pair. It's hard since the straight draws are always potential on that board. I really play them for straights first, hidden flushes second to avoid domination, two pairs as an afterthought.

I know that 345 on the board is obvious but for some reason no one picks up on it when it's not the flop. When the flop comes 345 people are like "woah that's a highly connected flop" but when it comes 3 5 x and then the 4 hits on the river for some reason people just can't see it. They think "brick" and don't play for it. That's kind of psychological, and it depends on the limit and player quality. Bad players just can't see this straight.

Anyway, I think my call range loosens more than most people on the button. I play lots of cards on the button but am pretty much ABC tight the rest of the table. I play most all suited connectors if the table is playing right and high gap cards like KJ or QT. AJ8 is such a beautiful flop with QT

I like to keep my button range high so I can play lots of cards from there and not seem like a rock (which I am most of the time). I like to raise a lot of cards too since players to my left will get so fed up with releasing blinds that they want to look me up post flop when I nail something hidden. It's just that 2 pair plays so hard on most boards. There is 'always' a set possibility, and unless the board is rainbow highly unconnected it's hard to be sure you've got a great hand. On the other hand I can't remember ever losing to two pair... O_o

Oh if you get 27 on a 278 board you will get LOTS of action from 99 and TT. Even if an overcard falls low limit players are dying to spew money at it. At least such is my experience.

[nlman]

I know that 345 on the board is obvious but for some reason no one picks up on it when it's not the flop. When the flop comes 345 people are like "woah that's a highly connected flop" but when it comes 3 5 x and then the 4 hits on the river for some reason people just can't see it. They think "brick" and don't play for it. That's kind of psychological, and it depends on the limit and player quality. Bad players just can't see this straight.

Well, I guess this has to do with the limits you play on, or you just get really lucky with the players For me 35 on the flop always means "possible straight draw" in a limped pot and when 4 falls I'll slow down a lot, especially when there are a lot of callers.

Oh if you get 27 on a 278 board you will get LOTS of action from 99 and TT. Even if an overcard falls low limit players are dying to spew money at it. At least such is my experience.

What limits do you play on?

[sfustsh]

(Small Stakes) No Limit Texas Hold'em

$25 and $50 NL

Hopefully in a few weeks I'll still be there

[nlman]

(Small Stakes) No Limit Texas Hold'em

$25 and $50 NL

I guess you are lucky then. I play $50 NL on Party and almost everyone stops betting or even folds whenever there is a straight or flush possibility.

[sfustsh]

(Small Stakes) No Limit Texas Hold'em

$25 and $50 NL

I guess you are lucky then. I play $50 NL on Party and almost everyone stops betting or even folds whenever there is a straight or flush possibility.

Really? My 99 and TT opponents love betting on that board. The connection is only 2 cards. Besides they should be betting if they are playing correctly (or even not retarded). That's a great place to feignt a straight draw, though I'd probably just value bet since they don't know what's going on.

Anyway we won't be playing NL 50 on party for much longer.