FTP 2/4 NL 6-max -- 3-bet w/ 89s -> i'm lost

[cavman]

Villain in this hand is nothing special. Not a great player, but hasn't made any really big mistakes yet. This is the first time I've 3-bet him PF. I haven't been playing too out of the ordinary, although I was 3-betting slightly more than normal, but I doubt he notices.

You can comment on PF if you want, but it's not the part of the hand I care about. On the flop, I was hoping to CR all-in, but the little fucker checked behind. So then, i was lost on the turn and river. What do you think?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
3 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Button: $347.80
Hero: $541.40
BB: $189

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is SB with
Button raises to $14, Hero raises to $56, BB folds, Button calls.

Flop: ($116, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($116, 2 players)
Hero bets $78, Button calls.

River: ($272, 2 players)
Hero....

Villain has ~210 left on river

[neverthink]

I shove, you can only be concerned about him having TT here and I think that would have bet the flop. He calls turn with something, probably a Queen, AQ or KQ maybe. I think you will look like you are bluffing and get called, if you check it, I think he'll check behind, and you lose value.

The only thing I hate about the shove is that you cannot fold out any hands that beat you, and will certainly get called by hands that do, but less often than you get value from hands you beat imo.

[sfustsh]

I'm not entirely sure why you wanted to get it all in on the flop with a check raise? You have a pair of 8s with an OESD. There's a good chance he's got overpair. If I'm trying to get it in on the flop I'm doing it myself.

Not sure what he's calling on the turn, could be a flush draw but those odds SUCK for a flush draw. More likely nailed the Q.

Push the river, no reason not to. Two pair is likely good. Probably doesn't have a T unless it's TT, QT, or AT, and AT isn't likely considering his turn call. Can't see him calling with A5 either. Queens are coming along and A6-A9 are too.

Flush draw isn't much to be scared of here.

Not a whole lot of hands you lose to here. I don't even consider a set a possiblity the way this is played. The only likely hands that beat you are QT or a wacky flush.

[easy_as_pie]

QQ? or other set. Not sure if KK or AA check the flop and play turn like that.

also, FOLD PREFLOP. 3bet OOP is not so good.
this is why river decision sucks so much for you.

[ugignadl]

For the record, I don't mind the preflop action at all.

I prefer to check the turn, see what he does--it is usually an interesting spot to see what abc players will do.

I don't know about the river, it's a terrible spot.

[cavman]

Pre-flop - for those of you that didn't like preflop, i can understand why. but, at the frequency i do this, i'm pretty sure it's a good play. people almost never 3-bet OOP without a big pair/AK so the hand almost never goes past a c-bet on the flop. if it does, i know i'm beat and can just check-fold. it is extremely rare that a situation like this comes up and I have a tough decision on the river. i really like this play because i pick up a lot of money from people with small pairs expecting to stack me on any flop. they lose a lot when they miss, but don't make enough when they hit.

Flop - I mainly wanted to CR all-in because I didn't want to have to call off my chips. I thought it would be a very tough call with QQ/JJ/TT, and I have a lot of equity against anything bigger than TT. Also, I could pick up an extra stab bet from AK/AQ. Possibly a little bad logic, but I still thought it was better than bet/calling.

Turn - i was lost here. i chose to bet, because i really didn't want to have to call a bet. I preferred to set the price and remain the aggressor. also, i still have some fold equity, and a lot of outs to hit on the river.

River - I pushed and he folded (after some thought). The only hands I was worried about were TT, AKs, and QQ, but these would be unlikely. Also, I wasn't folding, and I thought he'd call a bet with many hands he'd check behind with.

after typing up this hand and giving my reasoning, it really makes me feel like a donkey. but i still think i generally made the right moves after getting myself into this spot. but, this spot is so rare, i still think 3-betting pre some % of the time is correct.