Folding KK preflop? (again)

[blatman25]

I noticed there is another discussion on this subject, and I'd like to get some takes on this hand.


$25 NL Texas Hold'em
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: NUTZREELBIG ( $44.50 )
Seat 5: Dylan0421 ( $9.07 )
Seat 6: chaserboy496 ( $27.56 )
Seat 4: Blatman25 ( $39.05 )
Seat 2: ReAdYsQuAd ( $9.78 )
Seat 3: LarryCool3 ( $20.69 )
Blatman25 posts small blind [$0.10].
Dylan0421 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Blatman25 [Kc Ks]
chaserboy496 calls [$0.25].
NUTZREELBIG folds.
ReAdYsQuAd folds.
LarryCool3 raises [$1.10].
Blatman25 raises [$1.90]. I meant to raise more, but clicked it wrong.
Dylan0421 folds.
chaserboy496 calls [$1.75].
LarryCool3 is all-In [$19.59]

My read is that one of these guys has AA, and they'll probably both be all-in. Is there any reason to call if I think someone has AA?

I'll post the results lower.

[blatman25]

THE RESULTS:

Blatman25 is all-In [$37.05]
chaserboy496 is all-In [$25.56]
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, Tc, 9d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
Blatman25 shows [ Kc, Ks ] a pair of kings.
chaserboy496 shows [ Ah, Ad ] three of a kind, aces.
LarryCool3 doesn't show [ Jc, Ac ] two pairs, aces and jacks.
Blatman25 wins $11.49 from side pot #2 with a pair of kings.
chaserboy496 wins $13.74 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, aces.
chaserboy496 wins $59.32 from the main pot with three of a kind, aces.

[kedoran]

who cares what he had. He might play AKs, KK, QQ exactly the same way and it would look like AA again. Fact is you will see more then the hands that I mentioned all the time, people are stupid, dont give them credit for beating second nuts. If they do, then you rebuy and dont worry a second about it.

[blatman25]

I agree that people at this level are stupid, but when you stop respecting them, you start losing.

After a while you can start thinking "I have A7, but this guy's an idiot, so I know I have him beat, I'm going all-in."

Besides, when people are really stupid, you have to tighten up more, because they'll draw out on you more.

I tend to fold marginal situations for big pots, because I know I will have easy situations for big pots coming along in the next 10 minutes. Anyone else feel that way?

[kedoran]

Yes but this aint a marginal spot

[blatman25]

Let me explain what I mean.

If I have KK, and the flop comes A K 4 and my opponent is pushing the hand hard with AK, this is an EASY big pot for me to win.

If I have KK preflop, and TWO players are pushing hard, what are the chances that one of them has AA? Extremely high, in which case I'm a huge underdog. Even if they have AK I could be in trouble.

This is not an easy pot. I'm pretty likely to lose my whole stack here. Why push such a small possibility when an easy hand like the first one will come along within the next 30 minutes?

This is my thinking. Many will disagree, but it's just my opinion.

[bobcorn]

This is not an easy pot. I'm pretty likely to lose my whole stack here. Why push such a small possibility when an easy hand like the first one will come along within the next 30 minutes?

Why not push both edges?

[blatman25]

Why not push both edges?

Good point, but I just like to get in as a big favorite for the hand, and protect against losing an entire stack.

It keeps my variance ultra-low. Am I missing out on value? Probably.
Do I have losing sessions of poker playing this way? Very rarely.

I can go for two weeks and not have a down session. Some are break-even, but I hardly ever have a down session.

The money is just so easy to make at this level, I'm okay with folding hands with a lot of risk.

[kedoran]

So why did you call?

[bigdil511]

Let me explain what I mean.

If I have KK, and the flop comes A K 4 and my opponent is pushing the hand hard with AK, this is an EASY big pot for me to win.

If I have KK preflop, and TWO players are pushing hard, what are the chances that one of them has AA? Extremely high, in which case I'm a huge underdog. Even if they have AK I could be in trouble.

This is not an easy pot. I'm pretty likely to lose my whole stack here. Why push such a small possibility when an easy hand like the first one will come along within the next 30 minutes?

This is my thinking. Many will disagree, but it's just my opinion.

And this situation comes along often enough to justify folding? And you didn't fold BTW why are you advocating folding so much?

[hiho]

I found that no matter what you do, you will lose these types of hands.

[ugignadl]

Good call.....folding is amazingly bad here.

[blatman25]

And you didn't fold BTW why are you advocating folding so much?

Because I've had this situation 5 times (yes 5) in the last 3 days, where I had KK and was pretty sure I was up against AA, and called and lost my entire stack all 5 times.

I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.

[bigdil511]

And you didn't fold BTW why are you advocating folding so much?

Because I've had this situation 5 times (yes 5) in the last 3 days, where I had KK and was pretty sure I was up against AA, and called and lost my entire stack all 5 times.

I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.

Calling all-ins with KK PF is not a mistake in my book.