Can't ever spot a set....

[poormanbilly]

...and this is why. I'd been playing pretty aggro and this guy kept trying to play back at me, so I guess he was "trapping". Still... it's how I would have played a set against someone I thought had a big hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) TightPoker converter

Button ($61.85)
SB ($22.70)
Hero ($67.45)
UTG ($58.25)
MP ($43.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $3, UTG calls $2.50, MP calls $2.50, SB folds.

Flop: ($9.50) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $7, UTG raises to $17, MP folds, Hero raises to $64.45, UTG calls $38.25 (All-In).

Turn: ($129.20) (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($129.20) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $129.20

Hero has Ac Ah (two pair, aces and eights).
UTG has Js Jc (two pair, jacks and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins $129.19.

[neverthink]

Ha! You tricky mofo! I just typed my answer out based on him having a set. Either way, I think I still fold this on the flop, he is as bad as I said. Limping JJ UTG, whatever next? Terrible all in call by him as well. I think this is a situation where a good player can sometimes be bluffed out by a bad one. Good move by you if you felt he would do this with a hand you beat though. Stunk of set mining though.

[poormanbilly]

Ha! You tricky mofo! I just typed my answer out based on him having a set. Either way, I think I still fold this on the flop, he is as bad as I said. Limping JJ UTG, whatever next? Terrible all in call by him as well. I think this is a situation where a good player can sometimes be bluffed out by a bad one. Good move by you if you felt he would do this with a hand you beat though. Stunk of set mining though.

Yeah, I really wanted to fold, but it just didn't feel right. For this particular player, I think a call would have been more scary and more indicative of a set. I think his idea was sound because there was a high possibility that I was going to raise and come out firing on the flop with anything. Like I said, I was playing crazy aggro at the time.

[scottie_g]

Nh.

[mervhage]

fold this flop??? Sorry, can't do it. Never, not in a million years. Even if he limped UTG. He could have anything from 66-88, TT (though I have a hard time believing he could have JJ-KK). Also A9 is very possible as well. Sure, he could have a set, but WTF are we, Girl Scouts?

[bigdil511]

fold this flop??? Sorry, can't do it. Never, not in a million years. Even if he limped UTG. He could have anything from 66-88, TT (though I have a hard time believing he could have JJ-KK). Also A9 is very possible as well. Sure, he could have a set, but WTF are we, Girl Scouts?

[LadyWrestler]

fold this flop??? Sorry, can't do it. Never, not in a million years. Even if he limped UTG. He could have anything from 66-88, TT (though I have a hard time believing he could have JJ-KK). Also A9 is very possible as well. Sure, he could have a set, but WTF are we, Girl Scouts?

[poormanbilly]

fold this flop??? Sorry, can't do it. Never, not in a million years. Even if he limped UTG. He could have anything from 66-88, TT (though I have a hard time believing he could have JJ-KK). Also A9 is very possible as well. Sure, he could have a set, but WTF are we, Girl Scouts?

You have to admit though, it looks a lot like a set. Limp from early position and then call a big raise. That was sort of my point though, you can't spot sets very well against these guys. They just play so many hands like they are the nuts that it's hard to find a fold here, even for a Girl Scout.

[easy_as_pie]

it does look like a set but you are no that deep

[scottie_g]

How about this?


Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) TightPoker converter

CO ($109.95)
Button ($38.20)
SB ($48.75)
BB ($42.14)
UTG ($34.80)
Hero ($50.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with , .
UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, 3 folds, BB calls $1.75, UTG calls $1.75.

Flop: ($7) , , (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $5, BB folds, UTG raises to $15, Hero calls $42.95 (All-In), UTG calls $17.55 (All-In).

Turn: ($87.50) (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($87.50) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $87.50

Results hidden below:
UTG has 5h 5d (three of a kind, fives).
Hero has Ks Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $72.10. Hero wins $15.40.

[randy72560]

he could have a set, but WTF are we, Girl Scouts?

Haha, quote of the week!

[scottie_g]

Or this one...

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) TightPoker converter

BB ($78.62)
Hero ($86.60)
MP ($30.28)
Button ($50.98)
SB ($10.45)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Button calls $1.75, 2 folds.

Flop: ($4.25) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button raises to $6, Hero raises to $20, Button calls $14.

Turn: ($44.25) (2 players)
Hero bets $35, Button calls $29.23 (All-In).

River: ($108.48) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $108.48

Results hidden below:
Hero has Kd Kc (one pair, kings).
Button has Js Jh (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Button wins $102.71. Hero wins $5.77.

[neverthink]

How about this?


Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) TightPoker converter

CO ($109.95)
Button ($38.20)
SB ($48.75)
BB ($42.14)
UTG ($34.80)
Hero ($50.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with , .
UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, 3 folds, BB calls $1.75, UTG calls $1.75.

Flop: ($7) , , (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $5, BB folds, UTG raises to $15, Hero calls $42.95 (All-In), UTG calls $17.55 (All-In).

Turn: ($87.50) (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($87.50) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $87.50

Results hidden below:
UTG has 5h 5d (three of a kind, fives).
Hero has Ks Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $72.10. Hero wins $15.40.

Fold. This is sometimes an overpair, we'll say 66-TT. Read dependent, but as a standard, I would eliminate him going all in on just 66-88, so that leaves just the 2 pocket pairs he may play this way imo. Anything higher than Tens you have to assume he is raising preflop, we can't always fear limpers. Even the 66-JJ range though, is not the majority amount of hands (I think?) that he could be doing this with. There is a possible two pair (56), made straight, straight flush draw, nut flush draw (which you are not a favourite over here, so its a marginal all in if thats the worst he has). And of course, there are sets, and this stinks of set mining to me, especially with the checkraise. That raise also, is not some shitty minraise, he is defending his hand or doesn't mind getting it all in on a monster draw, especially combined with fold equity. It was half of his stack.

No doubt you are sometimes folding the best hand, but I think less often than you are making a good laydown. There is just too much out there that you are either evens (or just behind) of from the flop on, or a huge dog to.

[poormanbilly]

Anything higher than Tens you have to assume he is raising preflop

I've got a lot more to add to this thread later, but based on they way I've been seeing people play recently, I disagree with this. Everyone and their mother is trying to trap with their big pocket pairs right now. I think they saw Phil Laak do it and now they are trying it for themselves. It's madness.

nut flush draw (which you are not a favourite over here, so its a marginal all in if thats the worst he has)

Board: 5s 3s 6c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 43.5354 % 42.63% 00.91% { AsQs }
Hand 2: 56.4646 % 55.56% 00.91% { KhKs }

Or this one...

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) TightPoker converter

BB ($78.62)
Hero ($86.60)
MP ($30.28)
Button ($50.98)
SB ($10.45)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Button calls $1.75, 2 folds.

Flop: ($4.25) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button raises to $6, Hero raises to $20, Button calls $14.

Turn: ($44.25) (2 players)
Hero bets $35, Button calls $29.23 (All-In).

River: ($108.48) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $108.48

Results hidden below:
Hero has Kd Kc (one pair, kings).
Button has Js Jh (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Button wins $102.71. Hero wins $5.77.

We've talked about min raises a lot in the past and here's what my thoughts are.

1: Flop min raise: Equal parts bluff and nuts - I usually 3 bet to find out where I am.
a. If I get called, I'm beat 80% of the time and mostly done with the hand. I'll fire on the turn against crazys or maniacs, to keep them honest, once in a blue moon.
b. If he folds, I'm good (duh).
c. Pushes after my 3 bet are 50% draw/50% nuts. Go with read.
2. Turn min raise: Pretty much always the nuts unless you've got a read that says otherwise.

[poormanbilly]

We've talked about min raises a lot in the past and here's what my thoughts are.

1: Flop min raise: Equal parts bluff and nuts - I usually 3 bet to find out where I am.
a. If I get called, I'm beat 80% of the time and mostly done with the hand. I'll fire on the turn against crazys or maniacs, to keep them honest, once in a blue moon.
b. If he folds, I'm good (duh).
c. Pushes after my 3 bet are 50% draw/50% nuts. Go with read.
2. Turn min raise: Pretty much always the nuts unless you've got a read that says otherwise.

Fucking min raisers... I f'ing hate 'em.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) TightPoker converter

UTG ($57.30)
MP ($54.30)
Hero ($49)
SB ($86.05)
BB ($41.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.75) , , (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3, UTG raises to $6, Hero raises to $12, UTG calls $6.

Turn: ($28.75) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $16, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $44.75

Results hidden below:
No showdown. Hero wins $44.75.