Tight Poker

[terminal]

Since it's so damn cold today I decided to stay in and play some poker, but I am getting a little tired of NLHE so I wanted to try something different I saw a $1.10 5-card DRAW MTT about to start and decided to give it try. After 3rd break I am at the final table and 2nd in chips. Have never done very well in draw games. I am a little surprised I made it this far I guess it's just the low buy-in and it's a bunch of newbies like me.

[sfustsh]

"5 card draw is printing money"

-Biggle

[terminal]

Down to 5 and I am chip leader by about 100000 chips

[terminal]

Down to heads up and I have the chip lead.

[terminal]

Well I won, I think that is the first time I have ever won a MTT I paid to enter. I had won a couple freerolls and I have had several Final tables at paid MTTs, and a few second place finishes, but never a win. Figures it would be at a $1.00 buy in.

[sfustsh]

They take too long for me. I only play cash 5CD.

Having said that I have a ridiculous ROI for 5CD tourneys. They are just so easy.

[terminal]

They take too long for me. I only play cash 5CD.

I hear you, when I first started playing poker I loved to play MTTs. Now almost every time I think about starting one I talk myself out of it, because I start thinking about how long it's going to take.

[mewsiclovr]

I don't understand what's so easy about it? If it's so easy why isn't everyone winning?

Nice job terminal, is this your first 5cd mtt?

[sfustsh]

I don't understand what's so easy about it? If it's so easy why isn't everyone winning?

Nice job terminal, is this your first 5cd mtt?

I thought everyone was winning 5CD?

Everyone on this forum that I've talked to is beating 5CD.

[clivehamilton]

5cd tournies might be the most fun things ive ever played. i make an attempt to play the 5.5 every time its on, 100% itm so far (over 4 tournies.... nice sample!)

either way, you can play the utmost basic strategy and it works. plus its draw, so its fun.

[terminal]

I don't understand what's so easy about it? If it's so easy why isn't everyone winning?

Nice job terminal, is this your first 5cd mtt?

My second actually. I played a $5.5 MTT a while back. Didn't get very far that time.

[caffiend]

I don't understand what's so easy about it? If it's so easy why isn't everyone winning?

Virtually all forms of draw poker really punish bad play. It's the primary reason stud and widow games took over. If we concern ourselves with only Hold'em and Five Card Draw the way it's played online, Hold'em has two distinct advantages for the bad player:

1. It's much simpler to know when you're ahead.
2. You can't get your money in as a big dog.

The converse of those two is what makes draw a nightmare for the novice player. They don't know when they're behind, and don't really know how big a dog they are. Their misery is further compounded by the two betting rounds in draw. Post draw they can only fold their misses, or call with garbage and hope for the best. Either way is bad, you either piss away small bets with folds, or big ones with loose calls.

As far as the rest of your question goes, the reason everyone isn't winning is because people are playing. Draw is much harder to sustain than other games, because it's so difficult to win when you don't play optimally. That's one reason that you often see varients of it. (In fact, the blind stucture online is itself a varient.) California had the bug, the midwest had lowball, and the east coast had declare. Each of them was a way to "spice up" an essentially mechanical game.

It's akin to Five Card Stud played at fixed limits. You can only win if someone else is playing very badly. If everyone plays well enough to win, then the game dies quickly.

[sfustsh]

I don't understand what's so easy about it? If it's so easy why isn't everyone winning?

Hold'em has two distinct advantages for the bad player:

1. It's much simpler to know when you're ahead.
2. You can't get your money in as a big dog.

Bingo. While hand reading in draw is trivially easy for even moderately skilled players (and good players can make use of rather simple tactics to disguise their good hands), bad players don't pay attention which costs them a huge amount of cash.

The second point is also correct, draw has by far some of the longest odds in poker. Before the draw, AA is almost a 3 to 1 favorite over KK. It's a sucker who thinks this is a close draw. Drawing one to two pair to make a full house is over 11 to 1 against, and consider that this scenario occurs most often against a dominating two pair (a good player who knows how to play 2pair well) or trips.

EDIT: Still though, everyone on this forum I've talked to about draw is beating it, so that was my original point.

[mewsiclovr]

Well put guys, thanks.