11: Chase this combo draw from the blinds?

[mewsiclovr]

If so, what's the best line?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) TightPoker converter

MP3 (t1460)
CO (t1490)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1480)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1460)
MP1 (t1640)
MP2 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, 2 folds, MP3 calls t20, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t80) , , (4 players)
SB bets t60, Hero ?

[hiho]

I'd personally fold this. Its early and you don't have the odds to call.

[LadyWrestler]

Maybe we can get a little discussion going here. I would call, in this case, with one overcard and a double draw!

[sfustsh]

Maybe we can get a little discussion going here. I would call, in this case, with one overcard and a double draw!

Uggggggggggggh I've thought about this for a while.

At first I was like, dah, raise. Then I was thinking maybe just call and hope for the overcall. Then I decided again that raising is the correct option.

His bet looks like a scared 8 or T. Raising has a good chance of chasing him away as well as the other PF callers. If someone wakes up behind me I'm not putting all my chips behind this hand, but if he calls I will likely get two free cards for my CD (combo draw). If he reraises I am way behind and I would fold.

Calling is perhaps the weaker option. You can't really afford to have the other two players in this pot anymore. If either one of them has another two diamonds with the A or K, you're going broke if you connect, so you need to know now if it's out there. You don't need the additional odds that their calling can bring, because raising a draw is deceptive enough that you'll get payed off enough to cover it, in addition to the FE you have, which I think is very significant here.

In the final analysis, what happens on the rest of this street and on the next streets are so vague that it's very difficult to ascertain whether to chase this draw or not. Folding would be an acceptable play as well, because of the ambiguity of this hand. If I was in last position and the other two players showed interest, I would probably not chase this draw.

[Linuxrocks]

Raising is horrible.

I would call, but fold the turn if I don't hit.

These are the hands that will bring your ROI down actually unless you are careful. Folding is not bad either. I ocassionally fold if I am heavy-tabling.

[crunny]

i would call. But i have no idea why.

[ugignadl]

What? Easy call.

[Linuxrocks]

What? Easy call.

Why ?

[sfustsh]

Raising is horrible.

I would call, but fold the turn if I don't hit.

These are the hands that will bring your ROI down actually unless you are careful. Folding is not bad either. I ocassionally fold if I am heavy-tabling.

Just shitting on me tonight, aren't you?

Why not raise the draw every once in a while? It seems like you can take this down.

[Linuxrocks]

Raising is horrible.

I would call, but fold the turn if I don't hit.

These are the hands that will bring your ROI down actually unless you are careful. Folding is not bad either. I ocassionally fold if I am heavy-tabling.

Just shitting on me tonight, aren't you?

Why not raise the draw every once in a while? It seems like you can take this down.

Nope, I am not picking on you or anything. Let's see why raising is bad. You raise, x % of the time he calls and you are left with a difficult decision on the turn. You have invested significant chips and will be putting chips into the pot knowing that at best you are a flip or slightly better. At low stakes these guys call too often and the x is large making this highly -EV.

On the other hand, you edge comes from playing late game correctly. Even if this is slightly +EV for any reason (say the guy gives you his stack when you hit), there are much better EV opportunities later. So, there's absolutely no reason to take this risk now.

So, clearly, EV_call > EV_raise. Now, Is EV_fold > EV_call. Depends. I think calling here should be ok, but calling a reasonable bet on the turn if you don't hit is clearly bad.

[mewsiclovr]

Thanks for the input guys.

Here's some more of the hand:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) TightPoker converter

MP3 (t1460)
CO (t1490)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1480)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1460)
MP1 (t1640)
MP2 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, 2 folds, MP3 calls t20, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t80) , , (4 players)
SB bets t60, Hero calls t60, UTG+1 calls t60, MP3 calls t60.

Turn: (t320) (4 players)
SB bets t60, Hero is scratching his head.

[Linuxrocks]

Here I fold. You are not going to get paid much if you hit and much worse you might be looking at a full house or a higher flush.

Mewsic, don't over think. As a good starting guideline, fold all hands that require turn play. It's ok to pass up some slightly +EV opportunities early game.

[LadyWrestler]

I would also fold this to the turn bet. That ten is scary! Your outs could already be dead. And, anyway, the odds of making out with this hand vrs. the pot odds are no longer good enough to call again.

[ugignadl]

Easy call because a fold and a raise are both ugly (for different reasons), so call it is.

Stupid ten. I'd say fold. Just too many hands that can put you in a rough spot now.

[darinvg]

Flop:
My default is to fold especially when multitabling (I might have missed that we have a gut shot while playing as well). Also the flush draw is the 3rd nut draw. However, peeling a card seems fine.
Turn:
I'm probably spite calling his stupid little bet.